Hometown Cha Cha Cha Ep 4 - We Live in a Society [Podcast]

Streaming Banshees
Podcast Transcript

Podcast Episode 6

Episode title:  We Live In A Society

Date: March 3, 2022

Show: Hometown Cha Cha Cha Ep 4

Beep: Hello, and welcome back to Streaming Banshees, your TV book club on the internet. This is beep you can find me at beep Splain on Twitter. Today's podcast is about hometown Shaw, episode four, just a reminder. This is a rewatch podcast. So we have spoilers from the top to the bottom. We talk about the story and context of the                 entire series. So please make sure you've seen it all before you come and join us. You can find the podcast itself at our website streamingbanshees.com or on Twitter @TVBanshees. I am joined as always by the lovely CC. 

CC: Hey guys, you can find me at @capitalchick,

Beep: And today we have our first guest,  please welcome Emma who is such a gift to this fangirl community editing videos of all kinds of things and is just incredible. We love you so much, but tell us a little bit about you. 

Emma:  Okay. So I'm Emma, you can find me at Emma B underscore videos, usually on Twitter, I'm yelling about K dramas, mostly posting videos of just anything that my heart desires really, which I actually have CC to blame for yelling about Crash Landing On You. Yeah, that made me start my first K drama and I think I've watched 40 since then. 

CC: Wow. That's true. All three of us started, first meeting each other, watching post-apocalyptic sci fi drama. That we're all now we're fully, I don't know if the world is terrible. So we're fully on the K drama train.

Beep: It's been quite the fan girl journey through different shows, but I think CLOY was a lot of people's freshmen show over the past couple of years too. Emma: Yeah. And it's such a good one to start off with. 

CC: Yeah. Yeah. And people, if people listening, if, if Emma B video sounds familiar to you, it's because Emma has made many phenomenal edits specifically for Hometown Cha Cha, including that one you did at the end of the series that l breaks me about both Hye-jin and Chief Hong's journey.

CC: But the one that went viral overnight is the thirst edit to end all thirst of Hong Du-sik. And it was like, we went to bed and we woke up and it was like 11,000 likes overnight. It was insane. So fun. 

Emma:  That was wild. I remember I. I think I made it in just a couple hours. It was something I threw together. I was like, oh, this is going to be fun. It's just going to be a total thirst edit. And then it just went bananas. That's fun though, when people respond in that way and you're just kind of like, Hey, I just enjoyed this and people are explode over it.

CC: I'm never going to think of that dosha cat song the same way ever again.

Beep: And we'll link to that. We can link to that in our show notes. So, Emma, why do you love Hometown Cha Cha Cha specifically? 

Emma: Well, so I didn't really know what it was about when I started it, but I think the first thing I liked about it was just how summery it was. Because it aired at the end of August, beginning of September, I think.

And it was just like summer was like, kind of on its last legs. It was going out and Hometown Cha Cha Cha was just so cozy and summery. And I felt like I got to extend that summer feeling for a little while. And the first few episodes were just so fun. It kind of reminded me of Gilmore Girls, which is one of my favorite all time shows just to like small town shenanigans of it all.

And there's a character in that that works at like every establishment in town. It's like a running gag and then Chief Hong around town just working everywhere. I thought it was just so funny. And then of course. Later on, it's going to rip your heart out about all of that stuff. And it's not as just like cute and fun as it seems, but yeah, just from the beginning, it was really fun.

And then it was just an amazing fan experience on Twitter kind of group watching it. It was like a super active fandom and people were just losing their minds every week. And we had like a super active group chat about it.

CC: Like a support group. 

Emma: Yes. Which might've been started after this episode.

CC: I think so. And I watched the show because of you. So it comes full circle and yeah, it was after the final scene and epilogue to this, we just basically were like screaming and yeah. Into a group chat. This episode is definitely a turning point. 

Emma: This was the episode for me. I know you mentioned, I think you mentioned on the last podcast, that that was the episode for you, but Yeah, this was the one where I was like, oh, this is a problem.

CC: Yeah. As you were rewatching stuff, anything that you kind of struck you. 

Emma:  I think just clocking all those little details is really impressive because I remember watching the first time and you didn't know anything, but you knew there was some stuff under the surface that you didn't know about. And just kind of trying to analyze all those small reactions and just the looks on people's faces and going back now and kind of being able to map what they're probably thinking like what's hitting what their backstories, that's pretty cool to be able to go back and see that and kind of get a different experience.

CC: Yeah. It's something that I want to ask you guys specifically throughout this episode, because I feel like there's a lot of, what do you think was going through this person's mind, you know, now that we know everything about them. Yeah. So I wanted to chat about some big picture themes before we kind of jump into scene by scene.

And the first thing that really struck me watching this episode in particular is Chief Hong's line. We live in a society and I think overall, the show in terms of the series. From beginning to end is sort of a look at, and a love letter to community or society almost as if it as an ideal, like how it should operate.

But I know if you guys had any thoughts about this episode in particular is almost an ideal of how a community should support in SPE like specifically to women in a sexual harassment situation. 

Emma: The thing that struck me rewatching it was the scene where the creepy guy calls the cops and you just get this like pit in your stomach. I'm watching the guy at the station answer it and just like, oh, this guy's being framed. We've got to go. And you're just like, oh no, this is going to be such a mess after the last mess that Hye-jin just had. And here's another mess and it didn't turn out that way. And it was more of a supportive response to it, which you don't always get with sexual harassment. So that was more of an ideal way of some, like a way that this situation would be handled.

CC: Yeah. And everybody, everybody has a chance to step up in their own way. From Gam-ri through Eun-chul who's the police officer through obviously Chief Hong, but particularly the women step up for each other and to the sexual predator.

And so it's kind of the way everything plays out. It's that the women have a chance to stand up for themselves first and then everyone in the community, men and women have their back and you get to the end and you're like, Ugh, this is how it should work. You know? The other thing I thought about is how this episode and kind of, that's kind of like big picture society, right?

On a smaller kind of micro level, the point that Chief Hong makes to Hye-jin about how many friends she has this episode is sort of a love letter to her friendship with Mi-seon, but also to new friendships. Her friendship with Chief Hong and this really delightful fangirl friendship with Ju-ri, which has kind of this unlikely, you know, a woman in her thirties and a teenager, but like bonding over something that they both love.

And when you rewatch it, you sort of realize that she's really sort of taking his advice to heart. And one of our two hedgehogs is really kind of reaching out here in different ways. And she does it almost as a kind of struck me how much of an introvert she is. So it's always, one-on-one.

Beep:  I love the focus  on friendship in this show. They obviously, you know, ultimately it's a romantic comedy, but it's not only what you consider that. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I feel like that's been so dismissed, especially in the United States as kind of a viable form of storytelling. And, but however, in other shows, when you do have the romance, that's the only focus. And so I love that they make not only these unlikely friendships, but that they get focus. I mean, none of this had to happen for the story to come across the way it did, but it does add to not only the enjoyment of it, but to adding more dimensions to each and every character.

CC: Yeah. Because, and it's not only are, you know, obviously has the audience were most invested in our two lead characters and having our lead characters have these friendships, right. Having HHye-jin have this sort of unlikely fan girl, flailing friendship. That's kind of burgeoning in this episode with the Ju-ri makes us more invested in Ju-ri, but, but there's other side conversations, right?

Like when Haw-jung has sort of that side conversation with the grocery store owner Yun-kyung. They're talking about being moms and being pregnant. And the camera's kind of like moving in and out as what Beep you often call Gongjin this organism and everyone is not only fully realized, but there's just these like relationships and friendships, even if it's sort of like frenemies between Nam-sook and Haw-jung, right?

There's just so many different friendships and relationships that this episode has a lot of balls in the air that are either the main characters, but also among all of the side characters to that end. One of the things that kind of struck me is the song that Chief Hong sings in the cafe scene that's called old love is really, really interesting to think about.

Now, when we think about the song that Director Gi sings in episode 14, and the first line of that song is “it takes new love to forget old love.” Beep, with respect to what you were saying, that it's not just romantic love, right? There's a lot of losses and aches that these characters are carrying around that are friends that have died, family members that have died, romantic relationships that didn't work out. 

One of the lines that Shin Ha-eun included in the screenplay for Hometown Cha Cha Cha is a quote from Thoreau: “There is no remedy for love, but to love more.” Which also reminds me of that Wandavision quote about “what is grief, but love enduring.”

And the show is basically positing that the only thing that's going to make it better is not to hole up in your cabin by yourself forever, but it's to reach out and form these new relationships and it's happening. You know, this episode, obviously it begins with Hye-jin and Chief Hong, at least from Hye-jin's perspective, she's starting to reach out and starting to talk about her grief and connecting with him, even if he's kind of playing defense a lot in this episode, and it's kind of painful to watch him do it.

Emma: It is interesting that they're both dealing with grief and they do have to both get out of their shells in different ways. And in the beginning it seems like Chief Hong is doing that already because he's out in the community. He has got a lot of relationships, acquaintances. He's active. And so he kind of puts on this air that he is doing that.

And he is scolding Hye-jin saying that she needs to be doing all these things. But at the end of the day, he hasn’t actually come out of a shell at all. He hasn't really connected with anyone. He's still hiding all that stuff about himself. So it's just kind of this front. And they both in the end need to come out together to be able to connect with each other in these ways and share these parts of themselves.

CC: Yeah. I think it's a really interesting thread because one of the things that I love about the show is that it's about real intimacy. And the end of this episode in particular is an example of, you know, we have a lot of really fun kind of romantic moments in the show, and those are important too, and are really, really fun to watch, but it's really, these kinds of really grounded, almost feel like real conversations between people who were kind of, you know, stopping and starting opening up, pulling back. That is really sort of the emotional journey between our two main characters. But, you know, it also runs parallel with a lot of the other secondary characters as well. 

Emma, since you and I were in each other's DMS for months analyzing this show, one of the things that I love about episode four in particular is that it's such a perfect example of the way this show perfectly executed the slow burn. It's like a treasure hunt of, oh, they're thinking about each other. Oh, they're kind of being snarky, but missing where the other one is like around. Right. And, and it's just, it's like a treasure hunt of, of trying to piece together. What was this person thinking? Why did this person react this way? That's just basically like all of the breadcrumbs that Shin Ha-eun is laying around, particularly with Chief Hong, because she keeps him kind of veiled from the audience, like his emotional interior life. I feel like we know a lot more about what's going on with HHye-jin and where her head is at then maybe Chief Hong in the beginning.

Emma: Yeah. In this episode in particular, it's just shows that like hyper awareness that you have of another person when you're in that early stage of a crush. And you're just looking for every sign of them, even if it's just catching them across the street in the morning, you are just dying for that kind of fix.
And that's where they both seem to be at whether or not they're aware of it. 

And I mean, part of that for Hye-jin, outside of a romantic interest, I think she does kind of view him as a bit of a crutch in the community. It's like the only person outside of Mi-seon that she knows is friendly to her, even if they have the bit of the Kind of bantery thing going on.

He is looking out for her and she knows that. So it's kind of her only friend while she hasn't really connected too much with other people yet, but that, just that sense of they're looking out for each other. And they don't quite know how to act around each other. They'll say one thing, but then they immediately do the opposite thing.

CC: Yeah, we do Chief Hong's like, you don't know yourself that well, I was like, dude pot, meet kettle. 

Emma: Yeah. He's like, I won't deliver, you got to pay me this money. And she's like, okay, bye. And then he's like, he delivers it for free anyways. And then she's like, I hate being honest and open then proceeds to be honest and open, just like they, they just, it's making them act in a way that they don't expect. And it's fun watching them try to keep their cool with that. 

CC: Well that, so that takes us to the opening montage. Hey, Ms. Dentist, over and over. And I am, I'd love to hear your thoughts just as a video editor, because this it's, it's so elegant in how much it lets us know about how much they are becoming a part of each other's, you know, everyday routine, but it's also visually so colorful and telling us so much about what Chief Hong's doing every day and all its different jobs. 

Emma:Yeah. It's so fun. It's so colorful. And it does kind of get like, serve the purpose of showing that time has been passing. She's farther away from that kind of big blow up the speaker phone in the previous episode, which by the way in rewatch, I had to skip that scene.

CC: Oh no you did. 

Emma: I can't watch it again. It's too painful. But showing that like, okay, she's been there, she's more established. And going into this episode, people are less prickly with her. She still like needs to establish herself, but I think for the most part, they've kind of let it go. But it just shows the purpose that time has passed. I don't know how long, but, and her outfits are so fun. It's just like her personal runway to the office every morning and all of his crazy job outfits. And I just loved the misdemeanor. 

CC: Oh, my God. It's so funny. But it's also, I remember there was, I forgot what American TV critic talked about it and she was specifically referencing squid game, but just about how visually colorful the palette is so varied with, with a lot of shows coming from South Korea, whereas shows from the United States have been kind of drained of color for so long, you know, and are just dark, right? I mean, we've got Game of Thrones where you can't even see what's going on with the screen.

And so I think this montage, you, even though this is a show that is, you know, it's not, it's not sort of high fantasy, like king eternal Monarch, right. But, even though this show is grounded very much in the real world, this sort of awkward door and the colorful outfits going back and forth, it's just such a visually like eye popping sequence. That I always think of when people talk about just sort of how visually stunning and dynamic TV coming from South Korea is right now, I think of this montage because it really didn't have to be a sort of. Colorful and fun to watch. Right. You know, it's like 30 seconds. But it's just really, really pretty to look at and is really sort of like clever in everything that it lets us know, particularly that Hye-jin is super looking forward to seeing Chief Hong every morning,

The morning that we see her at our apartment and she's waiting for Mi-seon to get dressed. She is reconsidering what both Bo RA and Chief Hong said about the hedgehog theory and she's looking at the hedgehog and she says to herself, no, we're not similar. I was curious if you guys had any thoughts about that, sort of about how well she knows herself, who's the real hedgehog in the story.

Any thoughts about that? Because I thought it was like an interesting moment because she's kind of rejecting Chief Hong's assessment of her at this point. 

Emma: Yeah. I think they are externally at this point. Very different. So I can see why she thinks that even though they are coping with the same kind of pain their way of doing so is just so different. I think about that quote in the first episode Mi-seon says that her life motto, what was it?  Don't be nosy, put myself first. She said that that's Hye-jin's life motto and Chief Hong’s is basically be extremely nosy and put myself last. So there they are, those like complete opposites, but as they talk about at the end, they are in similar climates, like the polar bear and the penguin. So it's like, even though the way that they act is different, they're in the same climate dealing with the same things. 

CC: Yeah. And, you know, I thought a lot about the confession scene at the end of episode 10, in some ways as a continuation of a conversation, they begin at the end of this episode about the penguin and the polar bear.

But what I thought, what, what kind of struck me as I was rewatching this episode in particular is when Hye-jin says we have different blood types, different personalities, the personalities part is what really struck me as I was watching this because Hye-jin is an introvert and Chief Hong is an extrovert, right? With the way she sort of just withers into herself when she's at this table with people being loud and talking that she doesn't know and drinking. And she just is, is like, ugh, get me out of here. Really kind of hit me in a different way. Maybe the first time, it was a little bit like, you know, I mean the show definitely presents her with having a lot of sort of issues with sort of like class and coming from the city, but she really is an introvert and she does connect with people. It's just usually when it's a one-on-one conversation. particularly in this episode, whether it's with Ju-ri or Chief Hong, but she doesn't, she kind of crashes and burns every time she's in these big group conversations. It doesn't really go well for her at all. 

One of the other little pieces of foreshadowing that I thought was interesting is that she tries to pet the hedgehog and then she gets pricked. And I thoughtwow, that's great foreshadowing for what's going to happen after this episode because she's going to sort of put herself out there, right? She's going to kiss him in that moment. He's going to kiss her back. And both of our hedgehogs are going to get pricked in different ways because the next morning she's not going to remember it.

She's going to be very insulting about why they wouldn't be a good match. And then when she finally realizes what happens, he's going to pretend not to remember, and he's going to emotionally pull back and be like, no, no, no, we're just friends. And so I thought that that was a really kind of like, mm that's what that's what happens sometimes when you reach out, right? You get, you get stung. 

So we have this montage that established the routine. Hye-jin is walking with Mi-seon and she's like, where is Chief Hong? 

Emma: She's so transparent. 

CC: So bad. What should we order for lunch? Maybe the last thing that I saw him carrying as a delivery.

Emma: Man was it really?

CC: That's the little box that he swings around. That's why she's like, yeah. That's why she's like, let's order that for lunch. And me sounds like dude, we were like, not even at work yet and you're talking about ordering lunch and then she's immediately depressed when it's his day off and he wasn't the one to deliver.

Emma:That's wild. Mi-seon is just like watching her and it's like, I don't know what's happening here, but it's something she hasn't quite figured it out yet, but she was. 

CC: Yeah. And I love that. One of the things too that I realized is so great is when she's kind of taking the takeout bags out and is visibly depressed that he wasn't her crush, wasn't there to deliver it.

She says he's always around when you least expect it. So where is he today? And I'm like, girl, he's going to be running barefoot and a wetsuit in your office by the end of this episode. So there's all these little pieces of foreshadowing that are so fun. One of them is that we get our first glimpse at Director Ji in the magazine. Did you catch what Mi-seon said about him after they sort of fill the audience in that, you know, he's a friend from college. Did you catch what she said? 

Emma: What did she say?

CC:  when it's not meant to be. It's just not meant to be. 

Emma: Yeah.  That'll prove to be true for him, unfortunately. Well, I mean, eventually, but in the short term, that'll prove to be true for him.

CC: Exactly. But I love that. There's all, there's, there's many lines that Shin Ha-eun kind of folds in. One of them later on is when everybody who works on the TV show is like, well, we'll save that twist for the end. That's kind of meta, right. It's kind of like Shin Ha-eun, winking at the audience. I'm on rewatchI was like, oh, that was a clue that I never should have been in your DMs worried about this love triangle. She was letting me know that it was going to be all right from the beginning. So when, when this, he gives me like, particularly on rewatch, when he, and he's asking all these questions, like, are there cameras in the room or the little hand touches? I just want to curl up in the fetal position. I think that this is in an everyday way, a very powerful sort of post Me Too era story. Were there particular things that, you know, we're all women here having this conversation. Were there particular things that kind of hit you that were like, Ooh, that's so real about the way this all unfolds.

CC: I think just being stuck at work in a situation like that, I used to work at a coffee shop and there were some regulars that you just dreaded when they walked in the door because you have to take their order. You're stuck there. You have to be friendly to them. And some people do just take that way too far, even.

I mean, not in such an extreme way, although I'm sure it happened. Happens, luckily not to me, but just in those small ways that men especially can be creepy. Yeah. And just assume that your friendliness is interest or a reason to just hang around and pry and say things that are over the line. So it is such a relatable thing as somebody who's like customer facing like that in some way where you just have to deal with the public, that you will get unwanted attention sometimes.

CC: Yeah. For me, my sort of fist pump moment. I remember the first time when I was like in my early twenties and I was going to defend my first step position and I walked in a room. It was all men, all men over at least over 50. And just being the only woman in the room. And everyone's at least 30 years older than me. My opposing counsel said, oh, thank you for improving the scenery in the room. 

Emma: Ughhhh 

CC: And it reminded me of when he's basically complimenting Hye-jin on how pretty she is. And she's like, well, I prefer to hear that I'm a good doctor. She is so resolutely feminist in an everyday way. The lines that come out of Hye-jin’s mouth, that Shin Ha-eun is writing, it should be so basic. But she says things that you're just like, yes right! Or like later on when, in the future episode where the cop is blaming Nam-sook and she's like, why are you blaming the victim? There's just these like, very should be, if we're talking about what Chief Hongs says, “we live in a society”-- should be basic things that we all accept.

But this episode is really kind of has really uncomfortable moments because I feel like most women can relate in one way or another to some of the things that happen for Timmy sown in this episode, or Hasia especially sort of, you know, as you were saying, like those crossing the line, you know, the way he kind of like touches her hand unnecessarily when we saw on hand something to him, you know, or he sort of leveraging his wealth in a way, I mean, he clearly thinks, you know, he does it subtly basically to Hye-jin like, oh, well, you don't have to worry about it.

\ I can pay for everything. And then he takes liberties because of that. And absolutely thinks he can get away with it because of his financial position. Did you have any thoughts about, I mean, just sort of tracing through sort of the feminist threads of this episode, I thought the conversation about Bo-ra and how there's this little girl that does not express herself, quote, unquote, like as typical little girls, do you know, she's not wearing dresses, singing frozen, she's run chasing after the boys and playing and doing TaeKwonDo.

CC:  That I thought was really great and very subtle. It's like a side conversation. Yeah.  I mean, I was that little girl that's where I shopped in like the boys section and my mom hated it. She was not pleased, but yeah, I always had the more boys centric interests or sports, I played baseball and was not into girly things whatsoever until later in life when you kind of grow into a more rounded person.

But so yeah, I definitely could relate to Bo-ra.

And yeah, Hye-jin is so brave in that she can say those things because they do seem simple, but it can be so hard to push back, even if it's just that tiny little bit. Can be much easier to just kind of laugh it off or move on and try not to rock the boat. So even something as small as that kind of resolute statement can be so hard to say out loud sometimes.

CC: Absolutely. Yeah. And Haw-jung is my mom hero. She's so wonderful. But she also is like, you know, those little girls are the ones that end up like running the world. So, you know,  I think it's like an interesting preview to how open-minded she is about many things. Particularly as we're going to meet two old loves that are introduced in this episode. So there's just a lot of very subtle either progressive or feminist thoughts that come out of these wonderful female characters mouths that I just really I appreciated it, you know, definitely on first watch, but there's just, the show has so many wonderful female characters and I just don't take that for granted, you know, cause we don't always get that.

So that takes us to Hye-jin, as soon as she hears that Chief Hong is treasurer of the business association, I will be there. Um, girl, has it bad. Talk to me about sort of this whole dynamic we'll we'll, we're going to put Chief Hong's indie folk singer debut to the side for a moment, but because I lost my mind.

Emma, any big picture thoughts about what's happening at this table and sort of all the little micro interactions that are going on?

Emma:  Yeah. I definitely relate to Hye-jin as the more introverted person who struggles in those social situations sometimes in which you much rather just kind of hide at home, but when you do have this.

I mean, it's crazy what a crush can do to you and the things that it makes you do, and kind of like, she shows up to this thing she would never go to, and you can tell she immediately regrets it. And it was like, why am I here? I hate this. And then she just goes to sleep, which is my go-to move as well.

CC: Well, what I love about her quote, unquote killer move about pretending to pass out and she's going to end the episode actually passed out drunk at somebody's house. That's your, it is actually a killer move and you are going to, you know, kiss this guy and end up waking up next to him the next morning.

Emma: And she is going to do that like three more times:

CC: It is in fact, your killer move Hye-jin. I love one of the things that, um, it's the acting, but it's also the directing and the editing. And I, I'm curious, sort of your thoughts. I think the editing and this show is so good because it's like they have these re this pair of really wonderful actors in Shin Min-A and Kim Seon-ho that just have great chemistry and are really both in their acting and clearly in their directing.

Itt's all the little things. When he walks up to a table and there's four empty chairs, he picks the chair next to her. It's the way that she looks at him when he agrees with her, that divorce is just as normal as getting married and we shouldn't be judgmental about it. It's the way he watches her leave to go to the bathroom or the way she's wondering where he is when he comes back.

These are all the little clues that are, this meticulously built, slow burn that as an audience member, if you're super invested in them, you're like tracking all of it. It just catches like one thing is you have actors that are capable of doing it, but then you have to have the editing that mines all of it and pieces it together to tell that story. 

Emma: Okay. There's so many of those little moments and glances and just the feeling of them being aware of the other person and trying to come off. Like they don't care at all. Um, it is so many of those little details that gave us plenty to squeal over while watching it. I mean, there's this. All those scenes that you mentioned, and then there's a seasonal later episode or they're at Gam-ri's house and they're sitting next to each other, but their backs are just kind of leaning on each other a little bit. And I remember just losing my mind over that tiny little detail. It wasn't a point at all, but it was just like, look how casually they're touching each other.

CC: Yeah. Because it's so it's, um, almost like it's almost like a play in that. There's always things going on that seem organic as if people are just in a room or sitting around a table that the camera isn't necessarily focusing on, but they're so in character and the director has such a like mastery of here's all the other things that are going on with all the other characters who aren't necessarily the ones delivering the dialogue, but it's still telling a story.

Um that's so I it's just, you know, I know what I'm, as I'm saying it, it sounds basic, but it is, it does not happen in all TV shows, if that makes sense, right? Like that there's so much to pay attention to going on around people that are not, that are not necessarily the two people that are the ones delivering the dialogue.

Emma: Yeah. I mean, because there's the things that you're picking up as an audience about the community. Um, as they're talking about the divorce of Haw-jung and a Young-guk, and, but the main point is that kind of tension between them. So it's like you're picking up all this background stuff, but the real, like main focus of the scene is how they're almost entirely focused on each other.

I mean, he comes in and she's in he's immediately like responding to what she's saying and kind of trying to anti antagonize her about that. And then it's backing up what she's saying, and then it's kind of clocking each other as they're moving around the room. And so it's just like, they are kind of have drowned everyone else out and are almost just entirely focused on the other person.

CC: Yeah. It's like they're in orbit in or around one another, like there's all this stuff going on, but they are constantly aware of what the other one is doing. And that's true in the direction of their scenes, even when they're fighting. Um, cause there's a later meeting where they're basically not on speaking terms and yet it's almost like the opposite.

They're constantly like looking at one while the other is not looking or looking away. Right. It's just really subtle, really masterfully acted but edited. Right. Cause it's, it's also just piecing together all of those moments with a very careful eye. One of the things that I sort of love about this slow burn is that I think we have all been watching TV long enough to kind of understand that the rules of romantic storytelling are that they're going to be a part for a certain amount of time before you're finally going to give the audience what they want.

CC: Right. And sometimes the obstacles to get there can seem artificial or kind of thrown in at the last minute. And that's when a show can kind of lose the magic of that, of that slow burn. What I think is so great about Hometown Cha Cha Cha and is really sort of established in the beginning, but it's really starting to get fleshed out in this episode.

Their two main sources of conflict are Hye-jin’s discomfort with and not understanding Chief Hong's lifestyle and lack of career and his reticence to open up and his walls that become very clear at the end of this episode, every time she tries to ask him a question. And you have it built into these scenes – she's like, where have you been all day? And he's like, it's my day off. She's like, you sure have it easy…. live like me if you're jealous. 

So there's just this back and forth, but they're building here, even some of their banter is kind of letting is previewing for the audience this is going to be a thing that they have to work out, you  know? 

Emma: Yeah. They just keep judging each other on their own personal standards. When, I mean, she's judging him based off of how much money he makes and the way he works and that it's not like a traditional career in the way that she would expect or want out of a partner.

And he's judging her by the way that she isn't so willing to join the community and all the ways that he does when they're both on just very kind of extreme spectrums. And then in the end, they kind of find their happy medium between. 

CC: Yeah, that's a really good point because they are actually being very judgmental of each other and also always feel compelled to say so, which is remarkable. Like neither of them have an internal edit when it comes to the other at all. 

All right. Talk to me about, she's pretending to be passed out, drunk the lights, go on. And it's Chief Hong. I'm sorry. I'm Gen X. He's like in a plaid flannel shirt, holding a guitar, like singing a song. I just lost my mind. How did you feel about it? it too 

Emma:  It's too much for me. I can't  handle a serenade. It's really too much like bordering on the line of like, I just want to crawl under my blanket for 10. It's not. 

CC: Oh my God. Right. And I love the whole thing. I mean, particularly one of the things that is so delightful when you rewatch all of this is, is. Now we know that he knows the whole time that she's faking it.

So every time she can't help, she, so as she says, at the end, fascinated, she can't help, but like, she's like a little kid pretending to be asleep, you know, and she can't help, but like peek and then he'll catch her and then she'll like, put her head down. Like it's so rich and he's so amused. And he's just sort of like, he's catching her like every time.

And he knows the whole time that she's faking it, which you kind of like maybe got a sense, but maybe at the end he thought, no, no, no. He knows that she's pretending the entire time. Um, one of the things that's really fun, um, to pick up on with respect to the thing that I mentioned at the beginning of the podcast, the two songs that are not, that are existing songs that weren't written for hometown Chacha chop from that, you know, he sings here and then directors G sings in episode 14.

This song an old love is a really famous song by a Korean singer Lee moon say, and the lyrics are so interesting, particularly with the, what the editing chooses to focus on with. 

Emma:I hadn't picked up on any of this and it wasn't until I was kind of going through the notes and I was like, oh my God. And then, especially with the song later on and how well they pair. And of course they do, but it's just one of those things that I don't think to look into so glad that you do, 

CC: I go down these rabbit holes. Yeah. Well, so, so this song it's, it's this, the name of the song is an old love. This is not only an episode that introduces both old loves, Hye Jin's old love Director Ji but also Young-guk’s old love Cho-hee, but then we have sort of this circle, right?

Because Haw-jung is Cho-hee's first love, right? So you, this is an episode that is introducing two love triangles, both, both of which will subvert our expectations wonderfully in very different ways. But, you know, it's the title of the song that is previewing, these new characters that are going to be brought in by the end of the episode, that are setting up our two love triangles in the show, but also love and sort of a broader term.

The lyrics of the song are that Chief Hong sings, without anyone knowing I hung around and cried past moments, sink deep into my heart. The camera and the editing are squarely on Chief Hong's face. And as he's singing those lyrics and the camera's on him, and you think about him crying alone, “a past moment, sank deep into my heart.”

I mean, that has many of the moments that we're going to see Chief Hong, whether it's when he's drunk alone, outside in future episodes, or looking at the picture of his friend that died the camera then switches to HHye-jin where the lyric says as the lights switched on. Obviously that's what happens at the end of the last episode. 

Emma: Oh!

CC: I love that little sound you just made, but that's the lights that, that is how, I mean, her eyes opened up and she's looking at him during that Lear during, as he sings that lyric. It's obviously what just happened in the last episode when he returned her shoe. But it, I mean, she's going to be running down an alley and he's going to have a flashlight with the light switch on, right?

Like it's, it's, you know, this repeated imagery of what he, what I think that they bring to each other's lives, but what he brings into her life, right? Like what beeps or the last podcast is like, the world's kind of on dim. Right?

Then there's a lyric in regret and anger, tears drop from my eyes. The camera focuses on the divorced couple Haw-jung and Young-guk. She is focused on the stage and Young-guk you can see kind of looking off into the distance. Then the camera is firmly back on Chief Hong for the final lyric: I once believed no one could hurt me, but was my past self, all a lie. What I long for, I will keep as is inside my heart. Any thoughts on how that entire journey?

Emma: I can't believe that I didn't know any of this and it would've given us so much to theorize about this, about the time, but yeah, he does. He kind of berries that all up in his heart and it just stays there and focused on the past. And, but you just have that like, oh, eventually the lights will switch on and things will kind of.

CC: Yeah. I mean, it's just, um, such wonderful editing and obviously a meticulous selection of a song with the lyrics sort of previewing a lot of different characters' journeys. And then when you sort of think about the song that they're gonna use in the same way and episode 14, which is a new love, um, and he's looking at HHye-jin and thinking about, okay, it's time that I got to rip off this bandaid and tell her, um, it's just really the editing and the song choice. It's just really wonderful. 

Talk to me about this walk home. 

Emma: I love it. He knows that she's faking and then still throws her on his back, carries her through the town. I'm impressed that she can just stay there. Something to be asleep. Piggyback rides are never that wonderful. Makes it seem it's actually very hard to stay up there. Um, but of course they make it look so dreamy and wonderful. 

CC: I know, but I just look so it's so funny to me because it's like, The fact that he's doing this, knowing that she's faking, he's been carrying her for a while. And it's Hye-jin is a tiny woman, but she's still an adult human that he's carrying on his back and just letting he's just like quietly letting her get away with it until finally it's like too much because she's dropped the shoe. 

Emma: Um, but it all the reason did you just want her to touch for a little, just a little bit?

CC: Um, I mean, it is funny to me that she was kind of doing all of these things like ordering take out and going to this like business association meeting just to get, you know, be able to see her crushed and now he's carrying her on his back. Um, but it also should have been a clue. The only other person that he carries on his back is Gam-ri and jokes about how much she weighs. So should have been, I guess, a sign of, of letting us know as many other things at the end of this episode, that Chief Hong also has a thing for Hye-jin.

They have this really interesting conversation where he says that we live in a society and then he asks her, how many friends do you have?

She can say it's Mi-seon three times, but like three different ways. I think we talked a little bit in the last podcast about owHye-jin is this person who sort of clearly has all this love inside of her and hasn't really had a place to put it, but it really is. Once you think about sort of her experience in university and how lonely she was, and sort of how, I don't know, almost like a fish out of water, she felt because maybe she wasn't as financially well off. And we even saw that in the last episode, you know, with how competitive her, her former classmates were at the wedding, it's really, um, really kind of lovely. When you think about her journey and how many friends she's going to have by the end of this series. Yeah. 

Beep: I love their friendship too. I think it's just like one of the most fun parts about the drama and reselling. It's just such a, like she steals the scene every time she's in.

CC: Yeah. And the thing is, is that, um, what I think is so interesting is he is like, you don't have any friends, you only have one friend. And what I think he's going to have a front row seat to by the end of the episode is that may be true.

But that friendship like Hye-jin is an amazing friend. Like, she really has her friends back. Even if it were to come at a high personal cost to her and her business, she's willing, she has her friends back, like when it matters, whereas he's the hero of Gongjin, which we'll learn by the end of the episode, but nobody knows very basic things about him.

And like five years of his life is like missing and nobody knows anything about them. So, you know, so it's like, okay dude, while you've got a lot of friends, but you keep everybody at arms length, you know, like, Hye-jin may have only one friend, but that friend knows everything about her. You 

Beep: know, they have these fun conversations and we can just like tell everything that's going on in Hye-jin's head.

Beep: And they are very open and honest with each other, which is more than he can say. So, 

CC: yeah. So there is, um, there's, there's sort of this, like obviously they have a lot of fun in this episode with this kind of, um, snarky, A Philadelphia Story, like banter. Um, and you know, he says you're heavy as a rice sock, he's going to of course make us like Swoon when he repeats that line later when they're dating and he's carrying her.

CC: Right. And they're in their bed in his bedroom, but, um, It's also just like, there's all these other little ways that they let us know that like, even though she storms off annoyed at him, she's immediately Googling how much a rice sack weighs. And he is like watching her walk away in those shoes and as kind of pleased, wow.

CC: She really likes them. Right. Because he's the one who gave him back to her 

Beep: and it's like, I, she, uh, Googled like by 

CC: call. Yup, exactly. 

Beep: It was just like immediately after leaving a conversation, she's just like Googling what he said, like what an insult or, oh my gosh, she likes me that much. 

CC: And she goes back.

CC: I mean, what's interesting is he basically is like, you need to reach out to more people. Right. And she's annoyed. And she be, when she goes home, the two things she does is she digs through to find the photograph of her and June to show Ju-ri. 

And 

CC: she puts her ear, her earphones in to listen to the song that he played that night.

Beep: You're really chill. She's not thinking about it.

CC: You know? And then, I mean, so one of the things that is kind of fun is like, I mean, first of all, that's just like very. Intimate to be listening to that on your headphones alone. Like she is crushing really darn hard on him, but then it shows him that that song she's listening to the original recording of it that he covered.

CC: He it's, it cuts to him on his boat and he's alone on his boat at night, pure like romanticism with a big R right. I'm staring at the stars and he's kind of smiling and thinking to himself. And it's kind of one of those things you're like, huh? Wonder what you're thinking about chief Ong he's under the 

Beep: sky.

Beep: Yeah. The lights flick on. He's got his, his, um, headway of 

CC: bond. Yeah. One of the other things that it sort of does with how it parallels often the show will pair scenes with different love triangles, neck, like side by side one will follow the other. Um, a lot of times the editing will cut for example, from Chief Hong to show he later on in the series, um, to kind of let us know these are both two characters that have, uh, some deeper feelings that they need to say out loud to somebody that they care about here.

CC: They cut from one. Bickering couple with feelings bubbling under the surface to an ex-husband and an ex-wife for a walking home. He hands her back, all of the containers of food and heat. And he mentioned that he knows what the day is tomorrow. And now you kind of can see that he wants to acknowledge that it's the anniversary of her mother's death, but he holds himself back from seeing it.

Beep: Yeah, I think that is relatable when you're, I don't know on maybe rough terms with someone, but you still want that urge is still there to be caring, but you're not really ready to give that inch quite yet. So she's kind of this like very quiet way of still trying to care and show that you care also a lot in this show 

CC: about crossing the line.

CC: And I think that when you have a relationship like that, that has changed so much, I'm not sure, especially in their case that they know where the line is right now. Um, yeah, I mean, he's very, you know, he, and now we know that he was her mother's caretaker, so when she was sick in the hospital, um, and so, you know, he puts the, her favorite cake inside the container, but like, can't bring himself to sort of verbally acknowledged.

CC: That he knows that that anniversary is coming up, but he wants to acknowledge it in some way, but like, can't find the words to do it. And all he can basically say is thank you for the cucumber kimchi. I enjoyed it. Right. And you're like, oh, there's so much, there's so much more under the surface, which is basically the exercise of this entire episode.

CC: Whether it's these two talking or all these old loves being reintroduced or sort of the conversation at the end between Chief Hong and done is like you. Now we know what everybody's holding.

CC: So HHye-jin runs into the cafe cause she wants to find, I love when she's like, where's the girl who speaks rudely to adults, but she's so fired up, um, to like prove, prove this. Um, and Ju-ri is not there and we have the whole coffee delivery thing, Emma, which you mentioned, and this is so amusing to watch because Hye-jin is definitely acting purposefully.

CC: Like, like she's trying to be cool and nonchalant and you're like, you've just been chasing, seeing the sky all over town right now. It's just like, I mean, I guess I need coffee, whatever. And then he says, I get paid whenever I move. Do you guys have any thoughts about how much that is not true when it comes to her in this episode?

Beep: Yeah. I mean, He could have just let it go. But then he, he brings that coffee over anyway, for no reason, 

CC: free delivery, free delivery from Chief Hong might as well be a declaration of love. I mean, it's like, oh, 

Beep: it's that, that you were just sitting there when it was slow and thinking about, oh, well, if I bring her coffee, I get to 

CC: see her.

CC: It also is, I mean, the whole exchange when Ju-ri asks for coffee and he basically gives her a lecture down to like the milligrams of the daily allowance of caffeine. Can you imagine if Chief Hong was your dad? I'm, it's so annoying.

CC: It's so fun to watch when she returns and you have this all right. Beep didn’t watch live. Emma, you did. I'm going to say the two lines and then I want you to describe why everybody lost their minds when they have this kind of like very flirtatious. I'd rather not see you three times in one day. Likewise. So don't talk. Tell me what happened.

Beep: it's just like a trap that once you start watching it, you have to watch it like 50 times. 

CC: It is the most absurdly charged a guy looking somebody up and down flirtatiously. It is ridiculous in the best way. 

Emma: I think this gif could convince almost any woman on earth to watch the show.

CC: Oh my God. I probably have watched that GIF on a loop like a hundred times. So, but I mean, that's the thing that's so they're like the performances that it's like those little moments that sell this slow burn, like few shows I have ever watched, right? Like there's just this charged moment – that was like one look.

CC: And it was like one look that reverberated around the world for a full week until the next weekend. Um, alright. Beep talk to me about this fan girl moment. Ju-ri who believes nothing is real. Whether it's Hye-jin's perse in the first episode, all the way through actually being face-to-face with her idol gets proof that Hye-jin has actually met her beloved JUNE.

Beep: Know if you've ever been in a position that you are really adamant about proving that a child is wrong, but I am sometimes that petty. It's very important.

CC: It is what I love about, uh, what I love about it is. I love that it sh first of all, it is sort of the first step the Hye-jin is actually taking what Chief Hong said to heart. And she is, it doesn't end with her just proving she's right. She's a 34 year old woman, a woman sitting down with like a 13 year old girl and their fangirling over something that they both love that nobody else understands.

CC: Right. It's like, she's basically, it's like, Hey, it's like all of us finding each other on the internet. Right. Like Hagen and Ju-ri have now found the only other person in town that understands why DOS is amazing and why JUNE is the most beautiful man on earth. I found it so pure and lovely that, like, it was just showing these two people with 20 something years between them just making a connection through something that they both love.

CC: Yeah. 

Beep: They are so similar. They're both like, so skeptical of each other. Well, I mean, Hayden was just skeptical of everyone at first. Like she's so defensive and then, um, Ju-ri is so skeptical of Hye-jin and just like, oh, assume she's lying about everything for some reason. And, but then as soon as they like, get their guards down there, just get along.

Beep: So well, it's so 

CC: funny when he's like, I don't even think he's back. Good looking. They're like, whatever, he's hotter than you like both of them right there. So like, it's so funny. It's so fun to watch. But when you step back, what's actually great about it is everything that's happening in that room is community, right?

CC: It's like two people connecting over something. They love somebody who doesn't get it, but is amused by it is going to, you know, he comes and he, again, he's giving away stuff for free. He brings them free food, um, and is like, oh yeah, it's cause Ju-ri needs to eat. But he's also encouraging what's happening here.

CC: Right? It's like, exactly. They have this conversation where he's like, you only have one friend, like, dude, you gotta, you have to do more than that. And she is, and it's, you know, it's not going to be in a big group of people, all drinking and talking and putting pressure on her and being like, come up with ideas for our group when she first, when she sat down for the first time, because she's an introvert, but here she's like connecting with somebody and you know, she's got a 13 year old girl who says, can we be friends?

CC: Uh, that is a really high compliment with a 13 year old wants to be friends with you, you know? 

Beep: So I feel like douchey can, the scene is my boyfriend watching me watch K dramas. It's just like, he's not that handsome. I don't get it anyway. Here's some 

CC: snacks. Oh my God. That's totally true. That's why my husband's like listening to me and my 13 year old daughter and, and he's like, okay, fine. I know so-and-so's very handsome. I acknowledge. It's great. Absolutely. 

Um, okay. Before we get into all of the surfing through the hands on the face, let's save all of that for the end. When people will know they need to turn the volume down on this podcast and quickly cover the return of the two old loves as previewed by the song that Chief Hong sang, there's multiple old loves, right?

CC: Cause we've got a very, it's not even like a love triangle. It's more of like three circles going around when it comes to hush young and young Jack and, and chokey when it comes to how Zhang now that we know that the reason why they got divorced is because she overheard him. Basically describing their marriage as him sort of settling for her.

CC: Talk to me sort of way about rewatching these scenes, when she's so happy that he enjoyed her cooking, that she kind of goes, she's like humming to herself and making all of this food for him. It's so 

Beep: heartbreaking. And then that scene at the end where she's just standing in front of her refrigerator, just like throwing all that food back in inside, and then just standing there looking so defeated.

Beep: Like my heart just breaks for her. I know. And I feel like this is my one quibble with the drama. Is this love triangle because it was right there. The lesbians were right there. 

CC: I know. I know. Yeah. I mean, I, I, uh, I'll admit I was rooting for a different conclusion that I was watching. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but putting aside that maybe it didn't work out, this, the ship we were cheering for.

CC: It did not sail. Um, what I, I mean that moment with the refrigerator where she kind of leans back and just size, I love that the show lets moments like that brief, right. Because. On rewatch, there must be a lot going through her head because there's this friend that she hasn't seen in 15 years, who she knows her husband had feelings for.

CC: She walks back into their lives at a moment where she maybe was like, maybe hoping that, okay. Maybe if he misses my cooking, maybe like, what else could that mean? But now we also know that she knows what Cho-hee

felt for her. She was always cognizant of it. So it's just sort of like that moment on rewatch. The first time that I watched it, I thought it was purely about sort of setting up a classic love triangle.  There's a lot that I feel for Haw-jung when she's aged 15 years, she's now a mother. Later on when she tries to dress up, doesn't feel like maybe she looks as attractive as she used to. There's a lot of things that like, as a also middle-aged mom definitely kind of hit me in the heart about that because when things like that happen, you kind of compare yourself to the way you were, if that makes sense.

So it just is, there's so much that. This is one of those scenes where you're like, you can just kind of spin forever thinking about what a character is thinking about. And it's because they have these moments where they just kind of show that, just kind of let it breathe and let it, and they show a character kind of thinking about something.

CC: And now we can kind of mull around like, God, what's going through her head. Yeah. 

Beep: This is one of the scenes that I definitely remember from the first watch and rewatching the first four episodes, there were a lot of scenes that I didn't necessarily remember. And I was like, oh, I don't really remember that.

Beep: But this one, I do remember. And you don't know the full story yet, or I didn't at the time, but it still hit me in that way. It was just like, I don't know what she's going through, but you can tell that it's, 

CC: It's sad. Yeah. And the other scene that hit me in a different way, rewatching was when Cho-hee is talking to Young-guk and she's filling out her residential registration form.

CC: And they, you know, she discovers that he's divorced on first watch. You thought that they were sort of setting up this classic, at least as far as, as of this episode, you thought they were setting up. Okay. Here's the old love and whatever reconciliation they maybe had inched toward over the sharing of the food is now throwing a wrench into it.

But now when you rewatch it, you realize that what's internally going on for Cho-hee is, oh, then that means Haw-jung is divorced. And when she walks in and says, oh, you're still so pretty, Cho-hee must be internally screaming because this is a woman she was in love with 15 years ago.

And so there's just all these layers to it that because Shin Ha-eun is writing this love train triangle in this episode, basically like leans in on what we're used to seeing on TV with a love triangle, when really there's a lot of other things going on that we, at least as of this episode did not expect.

Beep: It is the perfect love triangle. And then an actual triangle where each person has unrequited feelings for the next person in just that triangle formation. 

CC: Yeah. Right. You could draw them all with little arrows pointing to different directions. Absolutely. So, it sets up all of that. And so she's going to subvert a lot of expectations because she's going to tell a story. Not only that a man was in love with a woman and a woman loved a man, but that a woman loved a woman. 

Now that takes us to –Obviously number three is Director Ji. I think we could call JUNE number four because he's Ju-ri’s love, but they walk in. We're going to give Ju-ri that respect for her fangirl crush. Old Love number three and number four walk into the cafe. I have to say. 

And we have all been watching TV together now for, I feel like we've been through many television shipping fandom wars. There is nothing truly on TV that I hate more than a love triangle. And yet it is a testament to the show that on rewatch, when Director Ji walks in, I feel affection and I'm actually happy to have him back on my screen. I do struggle with this type of love triangle. So I'm not as opposed to love triangles. 

Emma: I do like them when they actually feel like there's some stakes and you don't know who, um, the one person's going to choose, um, where it feels like they're both viable options.

And I tend to get frustrated with ones that are kind of like this one. I feel like this, this is the only one that I like where it's very clear from the beginning, that director, she is not. Yeah, but you still like him, and even though he is providing an obstacle sort of narrative, um, as a tool, it doesn't feel tiresome and it doesn't ruin his character at all.

Like I know that we both kind of reacted the same way to the second lead in her private life where it felt, I was just like, get this guy off my screen. 

CC: Yeah. Well, cause it was like, you're an obstacle, right? 

Beep: Yeah. It was just like, uh, in, in the same way that director G I was like, I know she's not going to choose you.

Beep: And your whole arc is just wrapped up in her and it's, it feels so pointless, but this one made a point to it, even though he wasn't going to get the girl or at least not this girl. 

CC: Um, yeah, 

Beep: he was having his own arc and kind of allowing for these realizations, both in do Sheik and Hye-jin, that it really made him, like, I was happy to see him every time 

CC: he was on screen.

CC: And it's remarkable because he actually, if you think about it now, you, you kind of had an inkling that he wasn't going to be the guy she picked because he shows up so late in the narrative in terms of actually interacting with Hye-jin, right. Like. He's not on screen with her until what, like two episodes from now.

CC: Right. So you kind of had a hint, like, okay, well, if this was the guy that she's going to end up with then that's going to be some spectacularly poor television writing if that's who she ends up with at the end. But he still serves the purpose of the trope of a love triangle, because he's going to enter right as Hye-jin and Chief Hong have sort of hit a kind of nadir in their romantic tension because they've kind of, they've been angry at each other after the kiss. They've kind of just worked things out and then he's going to pop up in. So he's going to be a catalyst, both for Hye-jin, but particularly for Chief Hong to kind of realize what they're feeling. But his friendships with both of them are so important because we learn so much about Hye-jin through him as does Chief Hong.

He's going to learn, oh, she didn't have, I gave her that speech back in episode two, about what an easy time she must've had in life. Oops. Maybe not. But he also is the cousin of his best friend's wife who died. Director Ji was there at the hospital, the night of the accident. And his colleague is the security guard's son, right. So he is not only a catalyst for the love triangle and our lead couples sort of recognizing their feelings. He's the catalyst for Chief Hong facing his past. So he's so important to the narrative, not just because of the romantic storytelling, but with the long-term mystery of what happened with Chief Hong.

But he also has this really lovely friendship with Chief Hong, where they're going to give each other really wonderful advice for both of their romantic relationships. And he's going to have his own slow burn with a television writer who I, I feel like that's like Shin Ha-eun being like, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to take love triangles, and I'm going to have the second lead end up with a TV writer. 

Emma: He is so integral to both Hye-jin's backstory and Du-sik’s backstory and him inviting his sister to town. Isn't that the way I don't remember quite how the plot turns out, but when it shows up in town, right? And then that allows Du-sik to kind of get us closure. It's just like the coincidence of all that. 

CC: Yeah. Because, and he, you know, he is, he is somebody who kind of listens to, he gets to know Chief Hong. And they have a real friendship. And I love sort of the little details, like the way Director Ji when he's eating with JUNE and is so excited about the seafood. So if Ju-ri and Hye-jin are going to form a friendship through their mutual love of a K-pop band. Then what is a fundamental foundation of Chief Hong and Director Ji's relationship is they both are really enthusiastic about food.

So they kind of preview like all that. But because he knows Chief Hong, and because they have this friendship where he basically, their resolution of the love triangle is he's going to be like, yeah, you know what? I like her, but I also like you, which was like, I want to stand up and cheer alone in my like family room, watching that, you know, he basically is going to say, I was never good at trigonomic functions. Love triangles are not for me. But because he knows Chief Hong as a person. So he's going to listen to the security guard’s story, his version of it, and kind of be like, Hmm, I think there must be something more to this. And he's really a catalyst to bringing these people back into Chief Hong's life to have these very important conversations that will lead to his basically self-forgiveness.

So it's really like the way you see this episode set up. Both of these love triangles in a way that plays with what we are used to seeing. And then what Shin Ha-eun ends up doing with both of them is just really remarkable.

All right. Let's all. Just take a deep breath. And I'm just going to say the surfing scene

Emma: The surfing scene.

CC: I feel like I'm Hye-jin at the end of this episode. And like, my face is hot. Oh my god. 

Emma:  I totally forgot that this won The Swoon award.

CC: This is officially Netflix’s The Swoon, as voted by fans, the thirst trap scene of the year 2021. Any thoughts on why? 

Emma:  Listen, there's a lot of closeup butt shots.

CC: Oh my God. We're just not used to it as Americans, television catering to the female gaze like this, it's a lot to adjust to. We're used to women always being the objects of the camera, right? Oh my god. It's a lot. 

Emma:  It's so fun and silly at the same time.

CC: I know it's like, I felt like this, the first watch I felt like this show, you know what you're doing and I know what you're doing. And I just want to thank you because as a member of gen X that grew up with Keanu Reeves and point break and Dylan McKay and 902, and, oh, this is like a very specific thing that is happening on my screen.

CC: Right. Just like I was watching with my daughter. And it was kind of like this moment where I swear to God, we were like Hye-jin and Ju-ri. We were just like, oh my God, what's happening on the screen right now? So I'm going, oh my God, they just kept going. So we just wanted to offer a proper homage to the Chief Hong thirst trap, surfing a thirst trap, winner of 2021.

However, I do think there's something deeper to the scene and I, if I can pull this off without giggling over what a thirst trap scene this is, I will be very proud of myself. But in our first pod we talked about sort of all the connections with Thoreau. And obviously this is sort of an updated, you know, 21st century version of our Romanticist with a big R very much enjoying himself in the present in nature. So it's not Thoreau bathing in Walden pond in the 1800s. Chief Hong has got a wetsuit on and he's surfing in the 21st century. 

But now once I  got the pure enjoyment of that scene for all that it is, I actually find it on rewatch, quite moving. And it may sound funny at first, but let me explain.

When you think back to where Chief Hong was in his life, when he came back to Gongjin that like dead eyed, shell of a man walking off the bus, reeling from an attempted suicide, that he feels responsible for the death of his friend, who was his only new family after he would have been alone for, you know, since he was in middle school and almost committing suicide.

When you see where he is at now, The way he's pieced his life back together, all of the work that he has been doing, we now know in therapy, the new purpose that he found as Chief Hong in Gongjin, I find it really moving to watch him be able to, if this is a man, as Haw-jung basically says at the end of the episode, lives his life bending backwards for everybody else. This, what he's doing on his day off is basically the only thing that he carves out for himself. And so being able to see him find that piece of happiness after everything he's been through, even though it's clearly and interestingly very much focused on the present, right? 

It's enjoying yourself in a moment. And there's a lot to be said for that, right? Because there's a lot of us that are always constantly rushing from one thing to the next are not able to do that. So there's a lot to be said for that. But now he's a man that also can't plan for the future. Because of all of his guilt and that's the journey he has to go on. But I just find it really moving on rewatch. When you think back to the state he was in, when he came back to this village. 

Emma: Yeah. I hadn't thought of it that way before, but thinking of the whole. Ocean and water. And there's definitely a lot of water themes, especially in a seaside town.

Emma: And when he was like, considering committing suicide on the bridge, um, and maybe you remember exactly what he said, but then he say something like I was looking at the water and thinking, maybe it'll bring me back to Gongjin. Yeah so seeing him on the surfboard and it is kind of like mastering the water almost is, it does kind of make you think about a healing process where it's like you, like, at that point he just wanted to surrender the water, get pulled under and maybe end up backing Gongjin. And now it's like, I'm on top of the water. I'm like moving with one with it and then like the whole boat analogy and that sort of metaphor.

And it does all kind of feel like it ties in. And it's like almost a reflective thing that he does on his day off that kind of ties into the past.

CC: Yeah. I mean, and it is, you know, what's interesting is I made this discovery the other day and I hope I hope the translation is correct. So what he's doing right now is as all of the things that we said, but it is also pointedly solitary, right? So when he has his day off, it is completely, he spends it alone. 

The translation I came across on Reddit of the list that Chief Hong makes for himself, his own bucket list that we get a glimpse of at the end of episode 14 when he's by himself writing his own list out.

One of the things that he wants to do is to take Hye-jin surfing. 

Emma: Oh.

CC: I know I just came across that last night.

Emma: atching the first episode in the scene where she loses her shoe. She says that she's afraid of water. And I, that kind of stuck out to me. I totally never picked up on that. 

CC: Yeah. And she's going to end this series, you know what I mean?

CC: So many times she's playing in the water with him, whether it's, um, in the next episode or, um, obviously, you know, like doing the laundry or when they're engaged at the end. Right. So, yeah, there's a lot, there's so much about water and the ocean you're right. Emma, that sort of symbolism the show's playing with.

CC: But, you know, I think it is really interesting that, you know, this is, this is all that. There's a lot in this episode about Chief Hong and his days off, and the hero of Gunjan, that all seemed just kind of like what was so unique about building this character, right. That on rewatch really is tinge with this poignancy because it's, he's living his life because he feels like there's so much he has to make up, you know?

CC: So, and even his day off, what he does carve out for himself is by himself. Right? Like as he tells Hye-jin when she's at his house, no, I'm alone. I have no one. 

So we're going to kind of take things as they flowed in the narrative for each character, rather it, how they were cut up, um, to reveal in the epilogue.

CC: So let's take the surfing scene through the end, who is the one we saw how annoyed he was when everybody was bugging him and calling him and trying to get him to do things on his day off, who is the one person that he answers his phone cheerfully.

CC: I know, because, you know, you think back to the bridge and her message on his phone saved his life. Like, right. There's like that layer to it. But also it's just so, you know, that's what she means to him, everybody else in the town, he calls his family when he's speaking to Hye-jin. But when it comes to Gam-ri, she's the one person he'll pick up the phone for.

Emma: Yeah. Seeing that very like clear. Cause it does seem like he's so friendly with everyone is close to everyone, but it sets her apart as like, no, that is his person out of everyone. 

CC: So when Gam-ri says that there's a commotion at the dentist office, please talk to me about the emotional journey you went on with what happens next?

Emma: Well, that scene is pure chaos. 

CC: It's so amazing. 

Emma: Like things are happening so fast. I don't think I understood what was happening. And he comes, I mean, just watching Hye-jin, slap this guy, spin, kick him, slap him. And then all of a sudden Chief Hong is here. He's all wet. He's like, 

CC: Oh my god, I just need everyone to know that this part of our outline is in all caps. We all lost our minds running in a wetsuit, running up high kicks someone. And I mean, it is, it is basically like a sequence out of an action movie and this show has been pretty chill. You know what I mean? Like, and all of a sudden we've got Hye-jin kicking somebody in the head, we've got Chief Hong rushing in flying through the air, like an action hero, right?

But I want to pause for a second and take it back before we follow through sort of what happens next, because they think it's sort of important emotionally to kind of root where Chief Hong is at, as he's running towards that. And he's running towards it, like, like Superman running towards a phone booth to change.

Obviously on first watch, when they, when you see that he does it. And then they reveal at the end that immediately Chief Hong may assert that he gets paid to move and he may claim that he does nothing on his day off, but the moment that he hears that Hye-jin is in trouble, demand is literally running across town, barefoot, like a bat out of hell.

Why did that make us freak out Emma on first watch?

Emma: Because he's running like an action star in a wetsuit! But like everything else, this show it's like played for laughs in the early episodes. And then later on it  rips your heart out. 

CC: Ah, so let's, let's like unpack all of that. So on first watch, it's a huge clue because Chief Hong, Shin Ha-eun has a little bit of a veil in front of him for the audience.

So we have to kind of rely on these epilogues  to get a glimpse of what's going on with his interior life. Whereas we have a lot more access to how he is feeling. And the first half of the story, obviously it's a big fricking deal that on his day off, he's running to save her. So it's a huge clue as to how he feels about her, whether he truly realizes it or not. 

But this is a man who has taken on the guilt that he was too late to save his grandfather, that he didn't pick up the phone when the security guard called when the market was crashing and he let his friend drive. And now he hears that somebody that on some level, maybe that he doesn't even fully understand, but he cares about is in trouble. It rips your heart out because why he's so terrified has a whole other layer to it.

Emma: Yeah. Just like that realization and watching the later episodes, when you see him running into the house and finding his grandfather, and you're just like, oh, like that dawning realization when you look back. The scene that just seems like, oh, it's showing how much he cares about her, worried about her. It's kind of funny. He's just like this blur the background, as they're talking about how he doesn't do anything for anyone on his day off and then being like, oh my God, you must have been terrified. 

CC: Yeah. And what is so crazy to me is that this scene is operating on so many of so many different levels, right?

Like it is a very comedic scene, right. It is playing with all of these tropes, but, but also subverting them. Because the guys coming to the girls rescue, but the girl also physically had it handled. Like she kicked him in the head. Then instead of the girl being the one to faint, because of all the commotion he faints and only then does Hye-jin fall on the ground.

So it's playing with all of these things that we're used to from growing up and watching the guy coming to the rescue. It's subverting a lot of it and kind of playing it for comedy.  Because there's a lot of absurdity to this. Like by the time Eun-chul and the police show up the scene is completely absurd. There are three characters lying on the ground and these Mi-seon is like what the heck just happened. 

But then it's like, it's such a gut punch to think about how terrified he was, that this was going to be just another time when he was. 

Emma: Yeah. I mean, thinking about where that puts him, I mean, he's obviously been kind of opening up and whether he realizes it or not that he has this interest in this woman and then immediately she's put in danger and it kind of reminds him like, oh, that's right.

That's why I don't build these relationships because it is so tenuous and like anything could happen to her. So it's just like, whether that makes him maybe shut down a bit more and continue to keep up those defenses of just like this can't happen because liquid almost happened. 

CC: Right? Yeah. Um, yeah, that, that kind of like how love and loss go hand in hand, you know, this scene, you know, whatever, what, what was propelling him towards saving her like that, it's also a stark reminder of that. It's a risk, you know? 

So that takes us to  the police station. I find it really funny that Hye-jin had been seeking out her crush one way or another and I'll all of a sudden she's locked in a jail cell with him and he's in a wetsuit lying on the ground. It's like a fanfic prompt.

Emma:  She’s like, I gotta get out of here. 

CC: He's like, why don't you go way down? And she's like, well, people get the wrong idea. It's like, okay, what ideas that Hye-jin, you know? Um, but he also, right. I feel like when I, when I, the first time I watched it, I was always clocking it, but it's just so pointed. Now, every time she asks him a question, how did you know what was going on?

He sits up, he immediately changes the subject and he's like, get me out of this jail cell, because he does not want to answer that question. Right? Like, so you have sort of, um, you know, one of the things that I think is if this, if this episode shows the way that like community can come together and kind of handle somebody who is a threat, like as an ideal, all of the special treatment that Chief Hong gets while everyone is literally ignoring everything, Hye-jin says it is also how small towns work.

CC: Right? Like, so, but, um, talk to me about. Talk to me about this yellow and pink shirt, Emma,

Emma: It shouldn't work. It really shouldn't, but it really does.

CC: It really does. It's so absurd. Like the amount of like just the sheer confidence to put your male lead in that shirt. And then everything that unfolds is just, you know, it, I mean, the show really does comedy very well and like this wardrobe choice was inspired.

Beep: Okay. But also it is very Magnum PI. 

CC: It is. It totally is. And he's going to basically, we now have what unfolds is a Magnum PI episode beat. You're right. Um, I think this, okay. Here's another scene that has multiple layers to it. Talk to me about the comedy of Hye-jin and Mi-seon tearfully hugging through the bars, even though the doors opened. This friendship scene while basically their future boyfriends are hanging on every word Like they too are watching a K drama.

CC: It's so funny.  And it's like in the first episode, when Hye-jin tells Mi-seon that she's leaving Seoul and they have this like crying hug then where it's just like, totally over the top. And again, here they are just like hugging and bawling their eyes out. And it's so sweet, but it is still played for laughs.

CC: Yeah, because the cops keep trying to talk to Chief Hong and he's like, guys, I'm watching something like watching. That's like right there, just like spellbound watching it 

Emma: And seeing the side of her, he's like what's happening. 

CC: Well, yeah. And the thing that on, on, you know, she gave her a lecture about quote unquote, we live in a society and friendship and all of this stuff.

CC: Right. Let's talk about what Hye-jin did in this episode.  Everything that Mi-seon says of why she didn't want to say something, that it was, you have a new business, like you are in the red, right? Like if I said something, how would that have impacted it? And in that moment, all Hye-jin cared about was her friend, basically consequences be damned.

CC: And Chief Hong is, I mean, you know, everyone is watching this, but chief hung in particular is watching and taking this all in the fact that she paid her, her salary and her bonus, even though she's currently running in a debt, right? Like he is seeing. Well, that there's a lot, again, a lot more to her than the person that was sort of the introvert that pretended to pass out drunk when they were with people earlier at the cafe.

Emma: Yeah. It's just so sweet that they're both ultimately concerned with the other person that Misa one doesn't want to say anything because she doesn't want to risk Hye-jin's business. And that's all that she's concerned about over her own self and that she's being, um, this guy's creeping around. He's assaulting her basically.

Emma: And she's, but all she can think about is the consequences of that for Hye-jin well, Hye-jin it's like, I don't care about any of that. My business can go under, I don't want that to happen to you, 

CC: right? Yeah. I mean, it's a really, there's, you know, obviously it's very funny when the music is purposefully, overly sentimental, right. And then it kind of leads up to the record scratch of, uh, you guys know the doors open, right. Obviously there's all of that. That, it's very funny, but it also is substantively really a kind of like moment where you're like, they're wonderful friends and this episode is really focused on their friendship as sort of like a cornerstone of this.

CC: That brings us to unhinged Chief Hong in his yellow and pink flowered shirt,
Delivering, in Beep’ss words, some Magnum PI justice.

I’m just going to need a minute because this scene is so wild in the performance and the giddiness and how he is just absolutely messing with this sexual predator and enjoying it. And it's both disturbing and funny and hot. And I just don't know what you do with all of it.

Emma: Yeah scene is so out there, I feel like it's such an outlier in what you normally see from him, but it left an impression

CC: He needs a villain role. I would love to see it. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot. And I mean, Beep raised in the last podcast, all of the very, like subtle ways that they play with sort of Cinderella, which they again do here. Gam-ri is the fairy godmother who brought the phone. Everyone had a part to play in bringing this guy to justice, even an eighty year old grandmother stepped up and did something. 

But there's also a lot of really great, you know, the women stood up for themselves, but then the men in this community from the police to Chief Hong have their back and is like, you're a sexual predator. Think about your victims. Think about  how they were hurt. It is very much like a definitively on the side of women in all of these Me Too things that we are all dealing with, no matter what country we're in.

But I just, I just need for you to unpack with me. Why do you care? Do you have something going on with one of those women? That's right. Something huge. 

Emma: I don't even remember. So somehow I don't know. Didn't notice this the first time, or I just forgot about it, but what's the gasp!

CC: Gasp! I like, because it's so, and then also the hilarious thing is right before the guy gets beat up more. He's like, wait, really? Oh, wait back to my shoulder because this guy's like mauling me. 

It's interesting because I've seen varying interpretations of that line. Like the obvious one is like fan the like, oh my god, he's basically saying out loud. Yeah. There is something going on, something huge. Right. And I think that layer is super fun and I think it's there and I think it's one of the breadcrumbs.

But I think there's something bigger, which is he, this guy messed with people from Chief Hong's community. Gongjin is his family. And if you mess with Gongjin, you mess with him. So I think it's, I think there's both the really fun layer too. But then I think there's also this kind of like this whole episode is kind of like a parable right? Of how community should work. 

Beep: I also think that with a guy like that, there's potentially the underlying layer that if she were taken, it would be different. It's creepy. Dudes can be, you know, really be put a back by, by a boyfriend like, oh, she's claimed that, that guy's just the worst. 

CC: He gives me such the creeps to watch. It's very well done because I really need them off my screen because it makes me uncomfortable.

Beep: So then we come to the portion between the Hye-jin and Mi-seon where Hye-jin admits the truth, admits the truth, that she's already admitted to Chief Hong, but she freely offers it up this time to Mi-seon. And she says from now on whatever happens, don't hide it for me. Friends are supposed to have each other's backs and she finally tells her you're the only friend I have. Of course Mi-seon is like, I know. Which I feel like so many people's best friend would say that. 

But then there's also the comment. A good friend is worth ten boyfriends. And I think that that is so true in  a broad sense. There's just, there is nothing in life that is more important in many ways than your friends and the people that you can count on. And hopefully your boyfriend, husband, partner, whoever actually is a good friend, but if not, then yeah. Uh, the person who's been there for you, your whole life and backs you up is there's nobody more important than that. 

CC: Yeah. And be that, that point, I think, is so fundamental that, you know, obviously this show is telling this really wonderful romantic story for, for a lot of characters. There's a lot of love stories, romantic love stories in the show, but one of the reasons why we love it so much is all of these other kinds of love, like platonic love, familial love found and biological, right? The show is scores of love stories between friends and family and romantic love.

But even the romantic love when it comes to these two friends that are having that conversation. Eun-chul and Chief Hong both act like friends who have their backs in this crisis in this episode, before anything romantic ever happens. They prove themselves, right? If 10 boyfriends are worth one friend, if you're going to have that one boyfriend then they should be like these two guys who had their backs, right?

Because this scene where Eun-chul seeks out me, Mi-seon out after this has all happened and she's kind of embarrassed.  And she is kind of trying to move away from him. And he basicallyunder the cover of being a policeman, lhands her his business card and is like, if anything like that happens again, don't try and endure it on your own. That's before anything romantic has happening between the two of them. He's saying, I am your friend and I am, I am here for you. 

Beep: And I care about  you in whatever context, I just care about you as a person and your safety.

CC: Yeah. And then you have the whole reason– obviously Chief Hong is,the quote unquote, the hero of Gongjin. But he calls Hye-jin after to let her know. She wasn't going to leave that jail cell until this guy was held accountable. She had her own moment of civil disobedience over it. Chief Hong, whatever levels he's processing things, he did this and let her know because he had her back in this situation and he did everything he could to make sure this guy was held accountable and let her know.

So like I think it's kind of wonderful the way Shin Ha-eun is like, you know, before I'm going to get into anything romantic with any of these characters, these two guys prove themselves as friends and the kind of men who have women's backs way before they're ever their girlfriends. 

Beep: Yeah. And I mean that on the other end of the spectrum is worth more than a boyfriend in and of itself to have people who are like that primarily before they're just concerned about the romance of it all. 

CC: Yeah. All right. That brings us to the polar bear and the penguins first date. There's so much to unpack.You know, maybe this is a moment where you pause the podcast, take a bathroom break, get yourself a drink, sit down. 

Just to start off, there is a deeper meaning and we talked about a couple of podcasts ago about the different moments of going hand in hand with the doorkeeper poem, all the different ways that Hye-jin shows up at Chief Hong's door. The first time she's just going to leave something and kind of walk away. 

Anyone, any thoughts on her emotional separation anxiety with her very expensive French bottle.

Beep: I feel like she thinks he won't know how to appreciate it because she's still judging his lifestyle. 

Emma: Absolutely. It's like she's just waiting for him to come back so she can tell him exactly how nice of a gift that she left him. That's 

Beep: Such a good point. So she can brag on it and not just leave it to himself and him to think like, oh, she brought me this thing. It's like, no, I brought you this incredibly expensive thing and that's important.

CC: But expensive things mean a lot to Hye-jin. So the fact that she's even willing to give this up for Chief Hong is actually a big deal, right. 

Beep: A hundred percent, but that's also why it's important.

CC: Yeah. I noticed while rewatching it, this time that it's like this very kind of elaborately wrapped, but maybe kind of impersonal fruit basket and then you think about later sort of the bag of tangerines that she leaves for him and sort of the contrast there. The meaning behind it and how well, you know, someone do you know what I mean? 

But what I think is so funny is now we know that he's watched, he's sitting there watching this entire thing. He says, I enjoyed the monologue. I felt so many emotions because she can't part with this bottle of Cotes de Rhone.

Emma: She looks like a  crazy woman. 

CC: He just sits there. I want to see where thiscmonologue goes. 

The rest of this episode are some of my favorite scenes in the show. And a lot of it is there's all the layers of like what we didn't know and what we now know. Of course it also is setting up so much of the way all of their journey to intimacy plays out because she's the one who's asking questions.

She's the one that keeps finding reasons to stay and kind of like asking for reasons to stay. And he wants her to stay. But also in the conversation, he's playing defense a lot with like a lot of the questions that she's asking. 

Talk to me about the set design of Chief Hong's house.

Emma:  It's so cozy.

Beep: I would like to live there. I have never seen a single man. Who's. Just in general. Yes. I'm calling people out. It's so minimalistic though. And simplistic while not being sparse 

CC: Yeah. I mean, his house, the set design for his house is like an extension of the character and the way they kind of let us see little glimpses of it when he was home alone at night, in the last episode but it was kind of in darkness. We couldn't really see it. So we explore the house and learn things about him as Hye-jin does.We see all of the jars that he's fermenting, all of the cameras, all of the photographs that are on the wall, all of the books.

 And the books as she's going through sort of the bookshelves and he gives this kind of BS to answer, “oh, I collect things cause they'll be worth money.” And it's like, whatever, dude, you're reading constantly. But what I think is so interesting is that so many of those books, the show uses as hints to his character or his emotional state, right?

We've already seen Walden. We're going to get the poem “The Kiss,” we're going to get Tolstoy’s “What Men Live By.” We're going to get the poem “Doorkeeper.” Literally and figuratively he is keeping secrets inside those books. That's where she's going to find the photograph of his friend who died. And so there's so much to discover about him and in these objects.

And it's like a really meticulous set design. That's like an extension of the character that we're going to continue to discover things about him, right? Like even when he chooses to open wine up for her or make wine for her as sort of the first hint that he doesn't even realize that he is planning for the future are all tied up in these objects in his house. And this is sort of like our first introduction to it. 

Beep: Well, his cabin too is kind of like his mind and we've all just gotten let into it a bit.

CC: Yeah. I mean, there's also like all of the obvious ties to throw who built his own house. He doesn't say so here, he's going to wait until he needs to kind of brag to Director Ji, but he made all of, he made everything. He's like everything in this house I found, or I built, I designed the whole thing myself. It is an extension of his mind in that it really shows us not only his talents, but his intellectual curiosity. There are these objects of curiosity  all over the room, everything that he's interested in. It reflects all of his interests. It’s the house of a Renaissance man, which is basically what he is. 

Beep: I love that no  matter what he's been through and how strong he is, he's going to brag when he is insecure.

CC: Yup. He's still a dude. 

Beep: It's so human. 

CC: Yeah. He doesn't brag here to her, but when, when she's there and Director Ji is there, then he's going to need to brag about all of it. 

She finds the grandfather's photograph. There's a lot of layers here because that photograph is also of course, inextricably tied to her day in Gongjin, Talk to me sort of about this first scene where she's asking questions and we learn when he lost his grandfather and that he's an orphan, but also the the empathy she shows and the way he has a wall.

Beep: Well, I think that he, I mean, even though he throws up a wall very quickly. But this is the first time and the first thing that he reveals to her. He's been so standoffish, not in a mean way, but just, you know, always changing the subject. So yes, he's still going to. But even saying that was my grandpa and he died in middle school. Like that is huge for him to an outsider nonetheless.  

CC: Yeah. And it's interesting too, because if you think about it, the grandfather is this gateway to him, opening up to her because the first time he's ever going to open up about anything after the attack, it's going to be about his grandfather and then he's going to let her into the memorial service. And that was also how his best friend was through remembering his grandfather at his memorial service. And so it's like this connection to the past, always kind of being this gateway to future human connection either with his friend in college or her.

And there's a lot that the show does both with Haw-jung and her son and kind of showing that community is also who mourns with you. Who is going to be sad with you and be there with you at a memorial as much as celebrations. But it's interesting because the grandfather is always the first way that he opens up to her before he's able to open up about the more, you know, traumatic things that happened after.

Emma: Yeah. It's like like a starting point where he can kind of get at some of his pain, but that's a bit less traumatic then the events in Seoul, which has obviously he feels a lot more guilt over. He feels, he feels guilt over the grandfather, but in a less traumatic way. So it's like he can kind of reveal some pieces of himself without breaking himself by opening up the door that much.

CC: Yeah. And I think Hye-jin is really interesting too, because we're going to get there in a minute but she can be really haughty and condescending But her instant empathy when he says I have no one and the way she's like, I'm sorry. And what must be going through her head because of what, who she's lost in her life.

So  if this is one of those moments where you're thinking now that we know everything about a character, what's going through their head. If she is still this wrecked over losing her mother, she's like, oh my god, he's lost everybody. If anybody could understand at least a portion of that, it would be her.

So all the way these scenes unfold is a preview of their stop and start. It lays out a lot of the obstacles, both his reticence towards intimacy, but also her issues with class and money. 

So talk to me about, “let me explain what decanting is.”

Emma: It's really embarrassing for her.

Beep: I love that he lets her explain, he let her dig a hole.

Emma: He's like, this is going to be good. 

CC: He just lets her do it when he just puts his head in his hands. And it's just basically like, oh my god, are you, is this all of this happening out loud? It kills me.

And he knows that half of what she's saying is wrong. Can you imagine even saying to someone, let me explain what decanting? It is so condescending. And he has just said to her, don't judge a book by its cover. And then she proceeds to be like, well, you're a country bumpkin who would have no idea why it is.

And he's like, yeah, no, actually I didn't decant is because it's old. That's not what you do with a vintage, like it's. So when she snorts the wine, Emma, were you able to rewatch that or did you have to also fast forward that too?

Emma: I did rewatch that it was painful, but it's like, he feels so bad for her because she wants to, to show off a bit and she just like snorts wine out of her nose and she's pouring the wine and he's like, whoa, the thing that's just like. Oh, that's so painful. Like you want to look cool. Like, you're this worldly person that knows all this stuff. And he's like, what are you doing? 

CC: Yeah. But you know, it's also like she really humiliates herself. Right. It's like, you're just like, oh my God, you are, you are totally humiliating yourself because you're being condescending, but this is somebody who she also likes.  So like, it's just so excruciating. But then what I think is also interesting is that this is somebody who, who putting on those airs is so tied up in sort of like her journey of self-worth from now that we know everything about what happened, like what her experience was in college.

She's really got to unpack the difference between enjoying and appreciating beautiful things and buying that for yourself because that makes you happy versus doing it because it impresses other people. 

Beep: A hundred percent because she's, she kind of exists in this space where she just wants to make sure that she does everything so that nobody can ever make those types of comments about her again, or see her the same way that she was seen in college.

CC: Yeah. Yeah. And it also is a preview. There's a lot of little details threaded into this episode, but there's some important things that come up that are going to be sort of like significant obstacles that they have to work through, which she's like, you barely make a living. And he's like, okay, well, like don't worry about me.
He's comfortable with how he lives. And then she's like, I guess how you live your life is none of my business, but they're going to circle back to this topic again and again and again until they kind of reach their like balance when she understands why he lives the way that he does.

And she kind of has to go on her own journey about career and like, what are the trade offs? And what's worth it? And who do you care about impressing and things like that. But it previews like a lot of that.

One of the things that I caught on rewatch when she's, you know, when he tells the whole story that he's sort of like the hero of Gongjin and then he's like, I gave away the money to the senior center for them to buy a new refrigerator. She   lectures him and is like, well, if you're financially insecure, you shouldn't be giving money to charity. Meanwhile, that's what she was doing! Do you remember when Mi-seon lectured her that she was giving money to charity when, before she'd even opened the clinic and she was in debt.

Beep: It's just after she lost her job, she wouldn't let those donations cut off. 

CC: Yeah. There's like a lot of things that are laying out. What are these differences that they have to work through? While also subtly pointing out that they also like have other things like in common.

She's quite flirty in this scene. Don't you think? With the “are you going to sing for me?” And he's like, “go home.” Which kind of reminds me of later on, like when she's like, oh my god, how much do you like me? And he's like, hang up. That's how he's going to deal with her fllirtiness um. 

So talking about montages that on first watch were hilarious: the why he won the brave citizen award twice on first. Talk to me about that. 

Emma: It's so silly. Um, just the music that's playing and him running down this guy, and then he tackles him and then eats some more of a snack.

CC: Eating the chips is so great. 

Emma: Oh, like the train. It's just like seeing that guy totally passed out in the middle of the train tracks. You're like how did that guy get there?

CC:  I'm getting date myself, but it feels like it's out of like a Mighty Mouse cartoon or like a classic superhero thing. Somebody is tied to the train tracks. There's a robber, right? Like he bounces off the wall! It is so comedic, but then you're like, why does he feel he, thedeeper thing of why he feels compelled to do all of this is actually really gut wrenching. This whole hero of Gongjin the way everybody calls him that when you think about how, when he's going to get literally punched in the face, by his past, in front of his whole community, and that Chief Hong mask is finally going to slip off. Do you guys have any thoughts or feelings about? She asking all these questions, but she's just sort of taking it at face value, but she has no idea what's actually motivating all of it. 

Emma: You can see, she just like, can't figure it out. And that's the same position that we were in watching it the first time is you're just like, the sky is so weird and you, you don't know why he's like this.

You could tell there's like some deeper thing that's bothering him because he's so defensive and he doesn't answer any questions and he's like, acts like a hero and you're just kind of trying to figure out what's going on. And 

CC: Yeah. And I think it's such a punch in the stomach is that he has these like citizenship awards. Everybody calls him the town hero, right? Like you've got, people would be like, he's like our own Superman or Iron Man or whatever. But what he thinks about himself is his nightmares basically: you don't deserve to be happy, his guilt. And what he thinks about himself is the opposite of this hero of Gongjin that his whole village thinks of him as.

Beep: Yeah. And I, and I think that he thinks if they knew they would feel the same and that is a constant fear that he lives with and part of why he's never expressed what's going on, obviously it's hard and he holds it all in. But because he so deeply believes in all the stuff that he's quote unquote responsible for and carrying this guilt around, there's also kind of an element of needing to keep it a secret because he at least feels somewhat normal with the way that they view him now. And he feels like if they were to find out everything, then they would view him exactly like he does. 

CC: Yeah. And the show will  pay down those stakes because the security guard’s son will say he's the opposite of a hero. He calls him a coward in front of everyone. And everyone around him, when all of these tragic things happened, blamed him.

So it's not, it's not just that he thinks this about himself. He has heard it from multiple people that he's to blame. So there's just this really tragic layer to what was initially presented as sort of this comedic heroic thing. If you're Hye-jin, it's like, well, no wonder you want to kiss this guy by the end of the episode.

He's just explained how he's done all of these like heroic acts and stuff like that. And it's like played for comedy, but when you get back as always to the root of why he does what he does, it's just like a real gut punch. And there's just these really deeper kind of tragic layers to the status quo of his life.

They get increasingly more drunk. I think it's very interesting that the extrovert gets quieter when he drinks and the introvert gets louder and chattier. And as we'll see in future episodes, running all over the town, when she gets drunk. They kind of have the opposite reactions to drinking with their personality.

And the other thing that I think is interesting is he kind of gave her this lecture about, you need to live in a society. You need to have other friends. So she starts to once she kind of has this liquid courage, she starts to open up to him. And she says that she hates being drunk. I hate being vulnerable and being more honest, when I feel close to being drunk, I clench my fists tight.

Do you guys have any thoughts sort of about her character and how honest she is about herself? 

Beep: I think Hye-jin lives in a lot of fear – that kind of like him in the fact that he absorbed everything that everybody had told him about being a coward. So I think there is an element of fear to her character where she thinks, and she does everything she can to counter the fact that the people in college might've been right about her, there's definitely a sense of insecurity there too, which she uses, you know, an overwhelming confidence and worldliness to try to combat.

Also, it's very interesting that he actually doesn't have any friends in a real way. So ever almost everything, in fact that he tells her is sometimes contradictory. 

CC: Yeah. I find it so ironic when he says, you don't know yourself, you don't appear to know yourself as well as you think you do.

It's true for both of them, right? Because we're watching them go on this journey where they're acting towards one another in a way that you're like, you guys are not self-aware as to what is motivating you. You do many of these things, but I think that's also interesting is she says that she hates to be vulnerable.

Everybody was like drinking at that meeting and they all knew each other and, you know, drinking and losing your inhibitions is being vulnerable in front of people, especially people that you like don't know. The only people that she gets drunk with are Mi-seon, Chief Hong and Director Ji.

And that struck me as I was rewatching beause I we were joking around sort of remember Beep on another podcast about how Hye-jin gets drunk a lot. And then I was like, wait, but she only gets drunk with people that she trusts. And so it's actually a sign of her trust for him that she's even letting herself stay here.

She wants to stay here when the wine runs out. They both want to find a reason for her to stay, but she also trusts him to be in a state that she normally is uncomfortable being in around other. 

Beep: Well sure, because she at least has a level of self-awareness where she knows what that does to her, which is demonstrated by that dialogue. She knows she's be out of it, both vulnerable, more honest, all those things. So she can only let her be that, you know, let herself be that way with certain people. 

CC: Yeah. And it's interesting, cause there's a lot about that. That is about control and sort of that imagery of a clenched fist. When he says you live such an exhausting life with such a small fist. All of the lists she makes and the plans she makes and you know, I'm somebody that plans for 99 years, all of that is like, because you want planning is because you want to exercise control.

And it's really interesting that that is how somebody who lost their mom and grew up now tries to control risk in her life. If that makes sense. 

Beep: No, totally. Because she never had it growing up. 

CC: Yeah. She raised herself basically because her dad was not doing well. When she says to him, right when her inhibitions are kind of lowering, don't you get lonely living here all alone. And he says, no, Gongjin is my family. 

Emma: He is lonely, but he tells himself he's not because he's surrounded by people and that he just kind of dives head first into the community and gives every part of him away. But he is still really lonely. And you can tell that by, like you were saying that when he drinks, he gets a lot more quiet, reflective, and when Hye-jin drinks, she kind of gets a bit more bold and it's more of like their truer selves, like Hye-jin loses that her, some of her spikiness and the defensive defensiveness that she has, um, in her fear of interacting with people that they're going to look down on her, she's more open to being honest and having that sort of dialogue.

And for him here, he's just kind of left with that kind of sadness. When you strip away that friend he's been putting on of “I'm happy, Chief Hong I'm here at your service” and here's this just kind of sad guy. That's thinking about all the things that are haunting him. 

CC: Yeah. And there's also this piece to it that is even if we took just what we learned from him in this episode, he has been on his own since he was a middle school. So that means his grandfather died. I mean, you know, early, early teens, right? 12, 13.And other than his relationship with his brother, you know, kind of his found brother in college who he then lost again.

It's almost like he doesn't even understand how lonely he is because when he gets sick and he's kind of like, why are you here? She's like, don't you understand how lonely it is to be sick when you're alone. And he doesn't actually feel when he actually articulates, when she comes to his grandfather's memorial, after she leaves, it's getting used to having her there that then he misses her or when she goes away for three days. And all of a sudden he's sitting in that house and it's defined by her absence. Whereas right now he's been alone for so long he just doesn't even realize the difference.

Beep: It's her presence that's abnormal. And thinking back for a moment to his grandfather. So he died when he was in middle school, obviously  owns hehis home as it was passed down. I know that he's made comments to Gam-ri about, you know, you fed me, you kept me going, but are we to assume that he kind of lived there by himself the whole time? 

CC: Yeah, I think he's been on his own for. A very long time mean, 

Beep: Because obviously he told Gam-ri that, you know, you fed me, you kept me alive, those types of things, but it seems like in the sense of actual, just physical presence that he's been alone for like over 20 years.

CC: Yeah. Right. So it's, I mean, that's, what's so kind of heartbreaking when she's like, don't you get lonely living here alone. He's 35. He's been living in that house alone for over 20 years, like, or alone in Seoul. So it's just a lot to, there's a lot of layers to this conversation. 

So she starts, but I find kind of, um, really such great foreshadowing about what a struggle it's going to be to kind of get under his shell or armor. She asks him, how long have you lived in Gongjin? He's lie if you had a really great deposition witness where his answers are true, but only answering exactly what has been asked and not offering anything else.

“Since birth.”  “Have you ever left this place?” Pause. “I have.” Period. “When?” And then it just shuts down like nope. You told me not to cross the line. Why are you asking so many questions. And it's such a deflection and it's like such a preview of everything that they're going to struggle with through episode 15 that it's like almost, it's like so much on rewatch. I think it's really interesting. 

What are you  your thoughts about Hye-jin saying that she, she always says that she's the person that doesn't like lines to be crossed. And yet with him, she's the one that's always pushing the line. 

Beep: I'm honestly not sure that she realizes she's doing it.

CC: Because she's so like, just as she says, fascinated, just she's just drawn into doing it?

Beep: Yeah. Yeah. I don't think she's like purposely, you know, thinking to herself. I wouldn't want to be asked that. Like, I think she's just so needs to break open that nut. I mean, I just don't think she even realizes that she does it. She's just that fascinated and interested. And like, this is a puzzle she has to figure out.

CC: And she's like, I'm not usually like this. Everything about the way she's acting Mi-seon the next day is going to be like, uh, this doesn't sound like you at all. Like the fact that you kissed him. 

Beep: She hasn't had a relationship since what probably sounds like since college and she's like 34. So I don't even think, I mean, looking back at the way she was then versus now, I don't even think she knows what she would look like in a relationship. So she's actually starting to lay the groundwork for that without even realizing it, because I don't think she's necessarily looking for it. And she certainly doesn't, you know, actively think right now that she's feeling that way about him. So I think we're just seeing how she would act if she had a crush.

Emma: Yeah. I think we're just seeing how this plays out through the entire drama that they both obviously have their, their past pain points, but Hye-jin is much, she's going to be the one that kind of moves past that first. And she's the one that kind of reckons with that first. And then like the first half of the drama is kind of peeling back her story and.

It really takes Du-sik the entire time to move past his trauma. And so it's like she has these hang ups. This is not the way she normally acts, but she is much more willing to kind of follow that instinct of like, I just want to know what's going on with this person. And she's willing to kind of act out of line that way, where he is still resolutely like nope.

CC: Yeah I think it's really it's so well thought out we.We see a lot of love stories on TV, right?But the way this is written is so digging into the details of this push and pull that's about intimacy and getting to know people.

And that that journey continues even after you've admitted that you like each other, even after you've said, I love you, right? That intimacy – people sharing their inner most hurts, insecurities fears, things that have happened to them –  that is a constant journey. Even if you have the big questions about whether you love each other or not answered. And not a lot of TV spends the time with that. It's kind of like, if you get the, I love you, that's kind of like often where the story ends or they are like, oh, we need to make it exciting. Let's break them up. But so much of this struggle with intimacy is so organic to the way that they've constructed the characters. Do you know what I mean?

Because it's not some lBS obstacle That's like coming out of nowhere. This IS fundamental to what has happened to Chief Hong, that he is going to find it so difficult to open up. And he's really, like, I also find it really refreshing that it's the woman, who's the one that's constantly initiating the next step of intimacy. So whether it's the first person who kisses, who confesses to who proposes, right? Like who brings sex up first? It's always her and that's, I don't feel like we always see that on TV. 

Beep: No, definitely not. And I thinkMhe's just reticent. I mean, I don't i think, and we haven't seen, now we could speculate one way or another. I don't know what Canon looks like, but we haven't seen him in any kind of relationship and because of what he's been through, I have no problem believing that he has never been. Yeah. I mean, there's so many firsts that happened between these two. Yeah. And that's why part of it, I think when they get together seems very juvenile.

CC: Beause they're like, just like teens and they're teenagers. 

Beep: I mean, they're like just giddy little goofballs. 

CC: Yeah. I mean, they've been so profoundly lonely, so they are just very lonely and sad. Sad eems like an insufficient word, but you know, like it's like the first time either of them have had something really joyful happen in their lives in a very, very, very long time.

Beep: Well, if I may use the landscape, I think that they're both kind of a wash at sea and this is the first like, like they're each other's lighthouse. Yeah. Dang. I just tied everything together.

CC: You did! So the acting from this point on, in this episode is insane because everything is so subtle and I love how Shin Min-a totally conveys this oh my god, what am I saying out loud? But I want to say this out loud and I'm going to keep going kind of nervous, but you're opening up, like when you have been drinking and you're saying all this stuff out loud, and I don't know why I'm saying but I'm going to keep doing it.

Like she's being, she's being honest and she's being vulnerable, which she had just said or things that are very hard for her to be. 

Beep: Right. Well sure. But she also mentioned that she doesn't like being drunk because she knows she'll do those things, which I think is part of why she got drunk. So she would do those things. This one's a walking conundrum. Some are a walking contradiction sometimes. 

CC: Yeah. And she's, she's so honest in saying, I'm fascinated by you. And when she says, I guess, opposites attract his visible gulp is perfect

Emma: Jaw clench.

CC: I know, jaw clench.I mean, what I think is also really interesting about the way the rest of this unfolds, he spends most of the rest of the scene listening and emotionally reacting.

Beep: So I think the biggest thing that she opens it up about here is what we might consider her deepest ache, which, and we talked about the word ache so much in the last episode of the podcast. And it was kind of the overarching theme as well. She is describing. The way that someone someone's death, the day that they die can overtake the day that they were born.

And she specifically says, it feels like my mom's existence is fading. Now what I do, like thinking back all the way to the first episode is it's her mom's birthday that she celebrates. And I know that that's, I mean, that is still a very hard day for her. And that actually probably ties into this, but it seems like she attempts to keep this from happening.

She wants to purposely remember her mother's birthday and the good moments that she can with her more so than this reality that has kind of taken her over in this grief. And I, we talked about this last time CC that, you know, the longer somebody has gone, like the less you think about them and truly the less you remember them, which he will echo about his grandfather further on it.

And he can only pick up on like certain things about it. And I remember having those very thoughts, like about my own grandfather who now has died almost 20 years ago. And it's like, I don't know. Like I think if I heard it, I would know, but I can't like, remember the sound of his voice. You know what I mean?

There's like those, those simple things. I mean, that was some with someone who was around me almost every day for 20 years, and I'm not sure. Like, I just, can't, there's so many things, so many simple things that I can't remember about him. And so many moments that we spend together that I don't remember.

And I think that that's, that's just kind of like a universal truth of grief, but it's something that is really, really poking at her right now, especially because it's so recent that she actually came back to go into gin for that very purpose. And now also, you know, she's drunk. 

CC: Ah, but she, I mean, she – granted there's absolutely like liquid courage going on here –but she's also really brave and open about her feelings, which it's something that she always is with him. And he admires about her and actually measures himself against it and find himself wanting later on like, as he expresses to Director Ji. 

She's so vulnerable and talking about her deepest pain. It was always –the way he was listening and how emotional he is listening. You always knew that something about what she was talking about was resonating with him, even when we didn't quite know why. 

Beep: Right, he wasn't just being a kind person by listening to her. What she said was resonating. 

 Emma: His eyes are welling up. 

CC: For both of them. It’s so beautifully acted, but it really is. It always was emotional, like, and riveting on first watch. But now that you can imagine everything that's going through his head, that he can't, the only thing he can remember about his grandfather is the way his hand felt in his or what, how his relationship with his best friend is now defined by his death.

Everything about the way he lost his friend is defined by the circumstances surrounding it. And, and like what he's thinking about, what, what have I forgotten about my friend? What, I can't remember how it's all wrapped up in guilt and how he died. Rather than like beautiful memories.

We'll see about the way his friend, you know, shared the grandfather's Memorial with him. It's such an emotional rewatch. 

Beep: Yeah. Every memory that he carries himself has been tarnished. And it's like, he hides that picture and I feel like that's the only thing he has to go to, to be able to look and say he had a life, he had a family, like he was happy, but he can't insert himself into that situation.

CC: Yeah. I mean, beep now that you just said that I know this may sound obvious, but the fact that he feels guilt over his grandfather's death and yet he can display that photograph of the two of them in his home. But he has to bury that picture of his friend in a book that nobody sees. And you would never know, you wouldn't know about it. She has to go digging into a bookshelf to find. It’s so symbolic of how much, the way he died, just envelops everything else. He hides it in shame.

I think what's also, I mean, obviously there's all she's talking about this, you know that's the reason why, you know, he, he asked her, why did you come here? And she, and the reason why she came here. Ultimately the same reason he did, even though it seems very different on the surface, but she, they both lost and they both come to this place and in different ways, like help, like becoming whole again. It’s the story of  two people healing in this place. Um, and he recognized that on the beach.

And now he's hearing, oh, I saw she was sad and now I understand why and I can emotionally connect with it. 

All right. Did you guys happen to notice that when she initially said that her face was hot, his hands went to the ice bucket?

Talk to me about that. What do you think's going on there? Is it like, is he planning it, is it in empathy merely stitching it an invitation for

They've been going about it. I mean, they play so much with, um, uh, feeling hot and fevers. Right. He's going to feel hot and feverish when the next time she cut. Right. Like they play with this a lot. Um, talk to me about what you, two personally went through. When he then put his hands on her face if you can. 

Emma: I am such a sucker for the, the trope of like an early moment like this, where it's like way too early for anything to actually happen, but like a drunk kiss or like a fake kiss for some reason, or, and just like giving this kind of like big swoony moment that it's not going to like lead to them being in a relationship, but it's just going to add this deeper layer of tension moving forward, where now they've got this, like, I know what it's like to kiss this person now, but we're still not on those terms yet. It's just like adding this angst. I love it. 

Beep: And it this adds another in crossing a line, they add another layer about not crossing the line. Cause this is just one more thing that's off limits. 

CC:  And it was so unexpected, right? Like a kiss, actually a drunken kisses which we will find out happened after. But a drunken kiss is actually more expected. This is  intimate, but it's also an act of comfort. Her face feels hot. He chills his hands. He puts them on her, on her face. He's like, it is hot. And then what we will see in the next episode, when they flashed back to this, he said, it's better now.

Which in some ways is what he always does with her. She has such a problem. He tries to make it better. Except that it's unbelievably intimate without being a kiss. And every time Hye-jin has these kinds of intimate moments with him that involves him touching her, the camera closes in on her eyes so that the audience is  with her in that moment.

And then of course they show the ice melting in the bucket, which, you know, we talked about the last episode is like also symbolic of her, right. Or what's going on with them or a lot of things. But then talk to me about what we learned actually happened next that she leaned in and crossed that line and kissed him.

CC: Well, Well, let me defend her for a moment by saying he has been trying to teach her to say, thank you. So this is his fault.

CC: It also  flips a lot. She kisses him and he does. It's the man, it's the woman kisses, the man and the man does the surprise open eyes. Like, oh my god, she's kissing me. Then he closes his eyes and gives into it.

 I will never know what happened next.

Beep: Just somebody sink into that moment.

CC: Oh there’s if. Jeeno wrote a great one. But like, what I love is in this moment, that is what's honest. She kissed him. He kissed her back. Everything that happens after is nonsense . It isn't honest. She said when I get drunk, I'm honest.  Mi-seon says, dude, you never, the one who's going to kiss the guy, you're conservative about that stuff. You not do that. What are you doing? 

This was as honest as it gets. And for somebody as emotionally reticent as Chief Hong to have closed his eyes and gave in and kissed her back, that's honest. And like that is what is, so everything that happens after this moment is just a clash of all of the things that were bubbling about class, he puts his walls up and this kind of then clashing of points of view because of who remembers what, when and who pretends not to, and kind of a very painfully believable way.

But what the audience knows is that moment that's real. 

Emma: And I really feel for Hye-jin, cause I feel like this is kind of a pattern with him where he crosses the line. First, he reaches over and grabs her face, which is a very intimate thing. And that's definitely what inspires her to lean forward and kiss him. He can cross the line, but when she does it back then, it's like too far, like even in the next episode, I remember in the beginning, he leans over and wipes the food off her face. And then she tries to do it again at the end of the episode. And he pulls back, it doesn't let her do it.

And it's just like this constant, like he can do it, but then she can't. And then it makes her feel rejected, which is just like extended. 

CC: So right. I mean, he, yeah. And he, but also if you think about the night they had and they cast, and then he slept by her side. Right. And they have this whole, you know, like manyy hours of, and we'll never know, it's like all of the show blacked out and we will never know. It will always be the fourth mystery of Gongjin: What the heck happened the rest of that night? Like what happened after this kiss? We'll never know. 

But like all of that, can you imagine seeing the person in the next day and they go, what happened last night? And then be like, I'm not paying for your lunch. You're not paying for mine. We'll split the bill. I felt for him so much after this, because for somebody who's been as lonely as him and keeps people at bay, the fact that she's even there at his house that like, I mean, it may not be where we want him to be emotionally, but it still is like him taking steps, baby steps towards intimacy. But then when he pretends that this never happened and she remembers it, you totally feel for her. It is just a total cluster. All of it are the natural obstacles that come after all of the messiness that all of this is happening, while they're drinking and all of the other things that are built into their clashing points of view. 

But what happened right here that we're watching is honest, right? Like it's them giving into what they're feeling.

Emma: I just want to bring up the fact that he's wearing tan cargo pants and an oversized t-shirt and it's the details that matter. That’s not an appealing outfit, but he makes it appealing.

CC: Chief Hong is rocking an almost completely khaki outfit. He is a disarmingly attractive fashion terrorists that is for sure. 

Beep I wish that you had watched this live with us because even before we knew that this scene ended in a kiss, I felt like my phone exploded. People lost their minds after.

Beep: Sure. And I doubt anyone was even expecting it even out of that whole scene because there, there honestly was so much intimacy even without that, but I mean, it added to it, I do think, but it would have been fine without it. And that's abnormal.

CC: Yeah. And that is like, that's such a good point too, because one of the things, one of the reasons why I love all of this so much is that if, if, if Shin Ha-eun first built, we have a kiss at the end of like, whether we realize it or not, we have a kiss at the end of the scene, but everything that she did before it is establishing all of the ways that like Chief Hong is somebody that is like worthy of this kind of trust is the kind of guy who has somebody's back.

And then you have real emotional intimacy before anything physical ever happens. Like she's opening up to him in a way that is probably very surprising to her and in his own way, just by the questions that he does answer the fact that he lets her stay, the fact that he kisses her back, the fact that he sleeps next to her for him, it's monumental.

Beep: I would say even for the fact that he allows her to do this, to open up to him, because I thought that's something that happens very much to him either. He wouldn't want anybody to get too close to him. You know what I mean? He has pretty surface relationships, I think in both directions for the most part.

CC: Yeah. Like her, his instinct, when she said, do you have questions for me was no, I don't have any. Then when he saw that she was disappointed. He's like, okay, fine, I give in. And of course he has questions. Like, why are you here? You know, like, but you know, his initial inclination was, don't go there. Don't ask questions.

Because that's crossing lines and he's full of it. Because he's just as much of a hedgehog. And he has the lines that he doesn't want to cross either. 

All right, Emma, this was so fun. Will you come back and flail about things in the future with us? 

Emma: I absolutely would. Come back. You just tell me when 

CC: And we're going to link all of your amazing edits. So if you're listening and you haven't been. To our Twitter account, go @TVBanshees, and we'll link all of the amazing edits the mov did for hometown cha-cha and they're all a delight. Some of them kind of tear your heart out. Other ones are just, you're going to watch a lot of times over and over again.

Beep: They all tear your heart out in different ways you've ever made a single one that when I wasn't done, I might be smiling, but still my, my heart has been, um, just toyed with, 

Emma: Oh yeah. The one that I made after the series ended was definitely an exorcism of a lot of feelings. 

CC: It's wonderful. It's really that's there. You have a lot of other really fun ones, but the edit what's that one called?

Emma: “Steady Waves.” 

CC: Yeah. App. So we'll link up or you can go to YouTube and your YouTube channel is just Emma and then B dot videos, right? 

Emma: Yes. I'm less acquainted with my YouTube channel but yes.

CC: If you want to just sit in your, in your Sikhye feels with their kind of emotional journey with picking up a lot of the things that we talked about, go watch that video steady waves because it's wonderful.

Emma:  Thank you.

Beep: We did it! Episode four. Good job ladies. It was fun. So next up we have episode five and that is where both of our hedgehogs will get pricked. We deal with the morning after and all the clashing and point of views misunderstandings, but maybe we'll also go to the beach. Until then, we hope you remember that a good friend is better than 10 boyfriends.

We'll see you soon.